There Will be Blood: Boston's Straight Pride Parade.

[cullennz]

I mean someone who adheres to the ideology of Nazism. Can't see how you can use it any other way.

If someone tells you they are a Nazi, in other words that they follow/subscribe to the ideaology of Nazism you don't believe them?

Well no



With all due respect Darat, I think you need to get a bit of realism.

The actual Nazis were an atrocious group of people that formed a political party, that took control of an entire country "politically", and then did some serious atrocity,

And you equate some rednecks doing a march with that?

They might want to call themselves Nazis. But given they are no political force and they are usually just laughed off, I see no reason to connect them

There seems to be a need to get a grip

 

[Darat]

Well no







With all due respect Darat, I think you need to get a bit of realism.



The actual Nazis were an atrocious group of people that formed a political party, that took control of an entire country "politically", and then did some serious atrocity,



And you equate some rednecks doing a march with that?



They might want to call themselves Nazis. But given they are no political force and they are usually just laughed off, I see no reason to connect them



There seems to be a need to get a grip

Er wow.

Have you followed your reasoning through, do you understand the conclusion of your reasoning?

Plus of course you are aging ignoring what I've said and made up yet another straw man to argue against.

 

[cullennz]

Yes I do.

I hate to break it to you but the idiots running the "march" aren't real Nazis


Maybe you can explain what is wrong with my reasoning

I'll start

Racist scum say they a Nazis.

Darat says they are actually Nazis because....................

 

[Sideroxylon]

This again.

 

[cullennz]

Pretty much.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Congratulations. I guess.

 

[Darat]

Yes I do.

I hate to break it to you but the idiots running the "march" aren't real Nazis


Maybe you can explain what is wrong with my reasoning

I'll start

Racist scum say they a Nazis.

Darat says they are Nazis because....................

We are talking about people who label themselves as being Nazis.

So "Darat says they are a Nazi because they say they are Nazis"

Why I'm not meant to believe people who freely choose to identify as Nazis are not Nazis is rather confusing to me, could you explain it?

 

[cullennz]

Congratulations. I guess.

I just find it slightly laughable that people would equate these idiots with actual real original Nazism.

They are a joke. With a few extremists

 

[cullennz]

We are talking about people who label themselves as being Nazis.

So "Darat says they are a Nazi because they say they are Nazis"

Why I'm not meant to believe people who freely choose to identify as Nazis are not Nazis is rather confusing to me, could you explain it?

Believe them as much as as you want mate.

It doesn't make them more threatening to our actual society,

They are just a bunch of **** heads to be ignored

 

[Sideroxylon]

I just find it slightly laughable that people would equate these idiots with actual real original Nazism.

They are a joke. With a few extremists

**** them. They are racist ******** who happily associate themselves with Nazi symbols.

 

[Darat]

Believe them as much as as you want mate.



It doesn't make them more threatening to our actual society,



They are just a bunch of **** heads to be ignored

And now you are moving the goal posts.

Do you agree that someone who labels themselves a Nazi we can assume they are a Nazi?

 

[Thermal]

This is a rewriting of your posting history in this thread that is by your own posts in reply to my posts obviously untrue.

None of my posts mentioned anything as "Nazi Types", I never called all "alt-righters" Nazis, I never put any label on any one. Yet you still objected to my characterisation of a self labeled Nazi as being someone who is a Nazi I. E. Someone who follows the ideology of Nazism.

Indeed you went even further to claim that Nazism today isn't the same ideology as it originally was, and I'll remind you that you never provided any evidence for this claimed change in the ideology.

By all means change your mind but you could just admit you have changed your mind without trying to rewrite your own history of posting.

I, uh...don't know what you're talking about here. That exchange was prompted by a tangential question posed by IATS who was apparently just kidding about discussing anything. It wasn't about you.

Instead of this vague 'someone who identifies as a nazi', maybe we could be more specific about who we are talking about and analyze their position? Just throwing that out there.

I mentioned iconic Malibu surfer Miki Dora earlier, the original surf Nazi. He wore swastikas and painted them on his boards. A lot of us thought he was just trolling. Should we assume he was genocidal? If not, why not?

 

[Darat]

I, uh...don't know what you're talking about here. That exchange was prompted by a tangential question posed by IATS who was apparently just kidding about discussing anything. It wasn't about you.



Instead of this vague 'someone who identifies as a nazi', maybe we could be more specific about who we are talking about and analyze their position? Just throwing that out there.



I mentioned iconic Malibu surfer Miki Dora earlier, the original surf Nazi. He wore swastikas and painted them on his boards. A lot of us thought he was just trolling. Should we assume he was genocidal? If not, why not?

What is vague about "someone who calls themselves a Nazi is a Nazi"?

It seems rather clear cut to me.

 

[Thermal]

What is vague about "someone who calls themselves a Nazi is a Nazi"?

It seems rather clear cut to me.

Was Mr Dora a nazi?

I call myself a Prince among men. Am I?

 

[Darat]

Was Mr Dora a nazi?



I call myself a Prince among men. Am I?

Did he say he was?

 

[dann]

Well yes I do

I doubt many on the stupid march do though

When you go to a rally, you have to get off the couch, first of all. You have to find out exactly when and where the rally takes place, so there's at least a little internet search involved, in most cases. People who attend usually know the slogans. If they don't before they show up, they'll see them on the banners. They also usually try to find out who the organizers are.
In this case, if you google "Boston straight pride parade" google suggests that you might want to add "organizers", and if you do, you get this on the first page:

Super Happy Fun America formed earlier this year as a nonprofit corporation, and John Hugo, Samson Racioppi and Mark Sahady — all Massachusetts residents — are listed as its officers.
“Straight people are an oppressed majority," Hugo, the group's president, says on its website. "The day will come when straights will finally be included as equals among all of the other orientations."
(...)
Running as a Republican, Hugo, of Woburn, unsuccessfully sought the 5th Congressional District seat in 2018. During the race, he was endorsed by the group Resist Marxism, which describes itself as "a patriotic organization dedicated to American nationalism" and protecting "Western culture and Christianity."
Robert Trestan, executive director of the New England branch of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), says similar “code words” are used as language to communicate within other organizations the ADL has described as extremist or promoters of hate.
Sahady, of Malden, and Racioppi, of Salisbury, both describe themselves as organizers for Resist Marxism, which also held a separate "free speech" rally in Boston in 2018, and counter-protests to the March For Our Lives movement and the state’s "red flag" gun bill.
https://www.wbur.org/news/2019/08/2... The 'Straight Pride Parade' Coming To Boston (WBUR, Aug. 29, 2019)

But feel free to believe that "many on the stupid march" were just random shoppers who thought, 'Hey, Super Happy Fun America! That sounds great! Let's join them!' - and never wondered about all the police or the counter protesters.

 

[Thermal]

Did he say he was?

Not sure it matters, according to this cat:

I mean someone who adheres to the ideology of Nazism. Can't see how you can use it any other way.

If someone tells you they are a Nazi, in other words that they follow/subscribe to the ideaology of Nazism you don't believe them?

Following the ideology is one thing, and I would agree with your take. Just saying ' I'm a nazi LOL', or even without the LOL,is a much lower standard that can be taken a variety of ways.

I'm a cowboy. Am I?

 

[Darat]

Not sure it matters, according to this cat:







Following the ideology is one thing, and I would agree with your take. Just saying ' I'm a nazi LOL', or even without the LOL,is a much lower standard that can be taken a variety of ways.



I'm a cowboy. Am I?

Are you?

 

[Thermal]

Are you?

My wife sometimes yells 'Thermal Thermal you're my cowboy' Does that count?

You are still being evasive, ignoring half the things said to quibble about the low hanging fruit. My position is that someone saying they are a nazi does not have to align with our understanding of the implications. It would be more accurate to identify who our self identified Nazis are and examine their adherence to ideology. That would eliminate the Miki Dora and Jovi Val possible false positives. Fair?

Eta: to answer your question: I say I am. I do not adhere to the ideology. Cowboy or nah?

 

[dann]

I mentioned iconic Malibu surfer Miki Dora earlier, the original surf Nazi. He wore swastikas and painted them on his boards. A lot of us thought he was just trolling. Should we assume he was genocidal? If not, why not?

In another thread, I have already mentioned the Danish stage director Sam Besekow (Wikipedia), the son of Jewish immigrants, who studied theatre history in Munich and Berlin in 1930. He used to tell the story of his old landlady, who liked the young student and invited him to a meeting organized by the Nazis. When he declined, telling her that he was a Jew, the landlady didn't take his no for an answer but insisted that he should come because, "We will be so much more pleased to have you there!"
I.e. she was unaware of purpose of the party of which she was a member.
So yes, there actually are (and were) people like that, but they were obviously few and far between, and after the Nazis took power in Germany, it became increasingly difficult to be ignorant or in denial about what they were.

Another example that I've mentioned before is Hans J. Massaquoi, author of the autobiography Destined to Witness - Growing Up Black in Nazi Germany (Wikipedia), who writes about the time when he wanted to join the Hitler Jugend and wore the Swastika until a Nazi teacher took it from him.

I can recommend the mini series - with subtitles in English:



So we get it! There have been at least two ignorant 'Nazis', the old landlady and a young boy, and there are probably more, but why is it so important to you to stress this fact when 99.9% of people calling themselves Nazis, wearing Nazi symbols and attending Nazi rallies are actual Nazis?
Do you want to make an actual point??!