There Will be Blood: Boston's Straight Pride Parade.

[TurkeysGhost]

Yeah, kind of like the dead bodies of the last multiple white supremacists seem to be perfectly fine, in your opinion, because...McCarthyism?

People are suffering now because of that speech, and because we have a president that repeats it. Appeal to emotion noted.



Right, that doesn't change my initial point at all that we have a body in the government that dictates free speech. Something you implied would be super dangerous. Thank you for finally agreeing with me.

If the SCOTUS rules that Nazi hate speech and propaganda is illegal, what would you do?



LoL the McCarthyism boogeyman. I love it.

Preaching for the genocide of multiple races isn't political expression, it's hate speech.

It is really so hard to imagine that these sweeping power you suggest would be used for injustice? We currently have a president who is sympathetic to right wing radical politics. Trump wields the vast power of the state while progressives suggest that that same state should save us from right wing extremists. RBG's frail health is all that stands between us and a 6-3 right wing SCOTUS for a generation. Right wingers are fervently working to entrench a minority party as the permanent holders of power, and you think expanding that power is a good idea.

This isn't a slippery slope, we are standing at the edge of a pit with no visible bottom.

There is nothing about the law, as it exists now, to stop the government from imprisoning domestic terrorists. The fact that the feds treat white supremacists and nazis as low priority is not proof that we need more laws, it is proof that we need to change those in power.

 

[Darat]

It's not the last time. Therein lies the problem.



We learn from past history. We don't live in it now.

Your comments would indicate that people such as yourself have not learnt from the past.

 

[Thermal]

Nazism was and is quite clear about what it is. I have no issue at all with making a claim that Nazis want to kill me, if they didn't they wouldn't be Nazis.

Can you show a significant 21st century source? Or are you relying on the 1930's stuff? Just curious. I think we are functionally at an impasse, argumentatively, if you declare without evidence.

 

[Darat]

It is really so hard to imagine that these sweeping power you suggest would be used for injustice? We currently have a president who is sympathetic to right wing radical politics. Trump wields the vast power of the states while progressives suggest that that same state should save us from right wing extremists. RBG frail health is all that stands between us and a 6-3 right wing SCOTUS for a generation. Right wingers are fervently working to entrench a minority party as the permanent holders of power, and you think expanding that power is a good idea.

This isn't a slippery slope, we are standing at the edge of a pit with no visible bottom.

There is nothing about the law, as it exists now, to stop the government from imprisoning domestic terrorists. The fact that the feds treat white supremacists and nazis as low priority is not proof that we need more laws, it is proof that we need to change those in power.

In the USA I believe it is currently illegal to be a member of ISIS, to promote ISIS, to advocate for ISIS, to aid and abet ISIS.

Why is that? Is it because of the aims, the goals, the actions of ISIS? Of course it is. Nazis should be treated the same way we treat members of ISIS, those that advocate for Nazism, that support Nazis should be treated the same way.

 

[Thermal]

Your comments would indicate that people such as yourself have not learnt from the past.

Oh, I learn. I also adapt to changing times. History guides. It doesn't demand we live in amber.

 

[Darat]

Can you show a significant 21st century source? Or are you relying on the 1930's stuff? Just curious. I think we are functionally at an impasse, argumentatively, if you declare without evidence.

I'm relying on the doctrines of Nazism, the content of a book called Mein Kampf and so on. You know Nazism.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

In the USA I believe it is currently illegal to be a member of ISIS, to promote ISIS, to advocate for ISIS, to aid and abet ISIS.

Why is that? Is it because of the aims, the goals, the actions of ISIS? Of course it is. Nazis should be treated the same way we treat members of ISIS, those that advocate for Nazism, that support Nazis should be treated the same way.

ahh yes, the PATRIOT Act, beacon of freedom. No one regrets that one.

 

[Thermal]

I'm relying on the doctrines of Nazism, the content of a book called Mein Kampf and so on. You know Nazism.

The past. Gotcha. Nothing changes. Ever.

 

[Darat]

The past. Gotcha. Nothing changes. Ever.

Can you point me to this revolution in Nazi ideology that has happened this century? I freely admit I must have missed this amazing rethink of Nazism and its new "no longer want to kill me" stance.

One suspects that you won't be able to do so. The reason being of course is that there hasn't been this redefinition of Nazism that you claim there has been.

Nazism remains what Nazism has always been.

 

[Darat]

ahh yes, the PATRIOT Act, beacon of freedom. No one regrets that one.

That doesn't seem to be a rebuttal to what I said.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

That doesn't seem to be a rebuttal to what I said.

My rebuttal is that the government shouldn't have the power you described. I won't defend it because the laws passed by the Patriot act are terrible. You can prosecute people as accessories to violent acts, such as terrorism here or abroad, without giving the state the sweeping powers of the Patriot act.

 

[Thermal]

Can you point me to this revolution in Nazi ideology that has happened this century? I freely admit I must have missed this amazing rethink of Nazism and its new "no longer want to kill me" stance.

One suspects that you won't be able to do so. The reason being of course is that there hasn't been this redefinition of Nazism that you claim there has been.

Nazism remains what Nazism has always been.

The Nazis were stomped out rather decisively. This new crew seems to share little but white power feces and some imagery. I think you have a long way to make the connection to these punks endorsing a fascist ethnostate and the other actual nazi objectives. For instance, they might need significant political action. More than a facebook page or twitter feed with snarky posts.

 

[Darat]

My rebuttal is that the government shouldn't have the power you described. I won't defend it because the laws passed by the Patriot act are terrible. You can prosecute people as accessories to violent acts, such as terrorism here or abroad, without giving the state the sweeping powers of the Patriot act.

I sincerely don't know so that's why I am asking. Prior to the patriot act USA folk would have been allowed to be members of IsIS, raise money for them, promote their doctrines and so on?

 

[Darat]

The Nazis were stomped out rather decisively. This new crew seems to share little but white power feces and some imagery. I think you have a long way to make the connection to these punks endorsing a fascist ethnostate and the other actual nazi objectives. For instance, they might need significant political action. More than a facebook page or twitter feed with snarky posts.

Again, can you please demonstrate the change in Nazi ideology that you claim has happened this century?

 

[Cavemonster]

For any fan club of X, it seems safe to assume they're fans of what X is best known for until some compelling evidence to the contrary comes up.

 

[ponderingturtle]

You're making the argument of "they won't be able to commit genocide", not that "they don't want genocide".

Hence it isn't incitement, it only becomes incitement when the risk is real.

 

[Thermal]

Again, can you please demonstrate the change in Nazi ideology that you claim has happened this century?

Yes, observation of their words and actions which do not indicate strict adherence to the Reich. There would be no change spelled out because there was no continuity in the first place.

Different time, different critters. Some similar swag and beliefs.

Please show 21st century direct endorsement of genocide. Not by association with previous generations,if you please

 

[Thermal]

For any fan club of X, it seems safe to assume they're fans of what X is best known for until some compelling evidence to the contrary comes up.

Disagreed. I'm a fan of America's founding fathers. Not a fan of slaveholding, denying women rights, etc.

You think a fan of Jefferson's writing must endorse him in toto till proven otherwise? Harsh bro

 

[Darat]

Yes, observation of their words and actions which do not indicate strict adherence to the Reich. There would be no change spelled out because there was no continuity in the first place.



Different time, different critters. Some similar swag and beliefs.



Please show 21st century direct endorsement of genocide. Not by association with previous generations,if you please

These are people claiming to be Nazis, I would say it is not up to me to show that they are not Nazis but up to you to show why we shouldn't consider them Nazis even though they claim to be Nazis.

 

[plague311]

My rebuttal is that the government shouldn't have the power you described. I won't defend it because the laws passed by the Patriot act are terrible. You can prosecute people as accessories to violent acts, such as terrorism here or abroad, without giving the state the sweeping powers of the Patriot act.

The point is the government has always had that power. I don't know what you aren't getting about this. The SCOTUS can easily translate what they're saying into hate speech, and make it illegal.

Comparing banning Nazi hate speech to the Patriot Act is disingenuous at best.

Hence it isn't incitement, it only becomes incitement when the risk is real.

Oh, so you're totally fine with me saying I'm going to kill someone, as long as I can't actually do it?

That is easily one of the most ridiculous arguments I've ever heard in my life. If there weren't rules here my comments wouldn't be so bland.