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There are truly no atheists in foxholes

TFian

Graduate Poster
TFian
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Apr 3, 2010
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As the Grand Archdruid of the Ancient Order of Druids in America, John Michael Greer says,

John Michael Greer said:
As the saying goes, there are no atheists in foxholes, and there tend to be very few atheists in collapsing civilizations — a lack of interest in spirituality is a luxury mostly found in times of prosperity and social stability. The inner resources provided by an active spiritual life are among the resources I’d encourage people to have on hand in advance of the next wave of crises.
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Source

Given this piece of reality, can atheism truly be societal productive, and if not, should we not discourage it's proliferation and encourage a return to spirituality instead?
 
TFian said:
As the Grand Archdruid of the Ancient Order of Druids in America, John Michael Greer says,



Source

Given this piece of reality, can atheism truly be societal productive, and if not, should we not discourage it's proliferation and encourage a return to spirituality instead?
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No. Yes. No.
 
TFian said:
As the Grand Archdruid of the Ancient Order of Druids in America, John Michael Greer says,



Source

Given this piece of reality, can atheism truly be societal productive, and if not, should we not discourage it's proliferation and encourage a return to spirituality instead?
Click to expand...
Reality, or opinion?
 
"...There tend to be very few atheists in collapsing civilizations..."

The irony being that this statement can be interpreted as a claim that collapsing civilizations are overrun with spirituality.
 
1. What are Greer's sources for his claims? I dispute them.

2. There are many atheists in foxholes, myself included as well as many others on this very forum.

3. I read your link and find much that is without merit in it, not least of which is the old chestnut of peak oil. Experts and doomsayers have been saying we have either reached or are about to reach in a few years the peak production of oil. What makes Greer right this time.

It's nonsense.
 
Oh I see, religion only prospers when people suffer hardship.

No wonder religion fundies try to make the world harder, they're trying to expand their message!
 
First off, thanks TFian for the link, it confirmed exactly what I told you earlier about Greer which you seemed to deny.

Second off, Greer does have a point probably, there is a correlation between abandonment of religiosity (even if not abandonment of religion itself) and prosperity. It's why the domestic missionaries often pick the homeless and other disadvantaged, they're far more likely to accept false hope (and some material bribery in the form of "charity") than non religious or otherwise other religion affiliated middle class or otherwise successful folk. However, I have to really question his moral basis given it's quite clear he seems to hold this notion with glee, as if a return to religiosity will be profoundly great for our society...
 
Garrette said:
1. What are Greer's sources for his claims? I dispute them.
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For which claims?

Garrette said:
2. There are many atheists in foxholes, myself included as well as many others on this very forum.
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Oh? How so?

Garrette said:
3. I read your link and find much that is without merit in it, not least of which is the old chestnut of peak oil. Experts and doomsayers have been saying we have either reached or are about to reach in a few years the peak production of oil. What makes Greer right this time.

It's nonsense.
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We've reached the peak in petroleum production in the US back in the 70s...
 
Wow. I find his reasoning wrong on many levels. Hard to choose.
Instead of investing in science and clear thinking that might result in new solutions and better quality of living - we are instead to invest in failed ideas that result in cycles of failure. But with spirituality we will be happy with less.

GO YE AND FAIL! the prophet calls to the wilderness
 
"...there tend to be very few atheists in collapsing civilizations..."

That's what we've been saying. The more of us there are, the less likely that society is going to collapse.
 
JadeStonesFromSaturn said:
First off, thanks TFian for the link, it confirmed exactly what I told you earlier about Greer which you seemed to deny.
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What else can you expect from someone who butchers Shakespeare in their signature?

Snip rest of the post, which I happen to agree with
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I think it's no accident that tobacco companies happen to target the same groups of people as religious institutes do (the uneducated, the homeless, the desperate, etc).
 
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Mudcat said:
What else can you expect from someone who butchers Shakespeare in their signature?
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Good point...

Mudcat said:
I think it's no accident that tobacco companies happen to target the same groups of people as religious groups (the uneducated, the homeless, the desperate, etc).
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It's all about taking advantage of the weak and powerless. Religions have had that game mastered for millennia. Me thinks Greer think his "nature spirituality" will become quite the fad once his worldview of a collapse of industrial civilization happens. Pretty telling.
 
If foxholes turn all Atheists in to Theists why don't Theists make foxholes instead of churches to convert Atheists?


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