Menthol, yes I did read what you said and considered it.
Unless you have been to different colleges and listened in on different people having meetings about zeitgeist, asked them what they are majoring in, which seems very unlikely seeing as you're not interested in it at all, then it's bogus. Even people who are interested are having trouble meeting up at the moment. If you have done that, then okie dokie, my bad.
Don't be so defensive I'm not your enemy
Promethus
For example, Fresco claims that the "carrying capacity" of the Earth is sufficient to provide everyone with everything they want. At the very least, this claim requires some sort of accounting of the average supply/demand of all resources, including the amount of work/energy/resources needed to move them from where they are to wherever they're needed.
> Yes, good point. Fresco does claim that this but he also says a global survey of the worlds resources needs to be done, but this cannot be achieved until there is enough awareness and enough people support this direction. All the money spent on WW2, that is in combination with all nations, was enough to build schools and medical care for everyone, worldwide.
Originally Posted by pickles1 View Post
As for the plans, I'm sure you can respect the fact that the movement is in it's infancy. First step is awareness and the motion picture which isn't due til 2010.
This is the single biggest problem I have with TVP, and it's the primary reason why it is so easy to assume that Fresco is either a raving lunatic, or a skilled con man (perhaps both). The real world just doesn't work that way. Try to name any other problem that has ever been solved by making a movie first. Fresco claims that TVP is to be science based. If that's true, then the first step is to do actual science, not make sci-fi movies, or pretty pictures, or theme parks.
> Again, good point. To be fair, film and cinema have not been around very long, and if you don't have awareness and enough people supporting the direction then well, it's not going to work. As for the science side of things, Fresco has been inventing, researching and studying science his entire life. He has many, many designs, many have already been tested successfully. He's now 93 years old and he still makes a huge commitment to this movement, still designing, giving lectures, participating in radio broadcasts, so to call him a con-man is unfounded. Those pretty pictures are not just pretty pictures, Jacque has detailed plans and schematics for each and every one of them.
Inventions and Designs
* Systems for noiseless and pollution free aircraft
* A new aircraft wing structural system, patented by the US Air Force
* An electrostatic system for the elimination of sonic boom for Raymond DeIcer
* Boundary layer control and electrodynamic methods for aircraft control that dispenses with ailerons, elevators, rudders, and flaps
* A three-wheel automobile consisting of only 32 parts
* “The Aluminum Trend House,” a prefabricated house designed and developed for Mike Shore and Earl Muntz, 1945
* Designed and developed another prefabricated aluminum house for Major Realty Corporation in collaboration with Aluminum Company of America
* Developed numerous components and systems for architectural construction
* Developed equipment ranging from 3-dimensional x-ray units to electronic surgical instruments for the medical field
* Developed a technique for viewing 3-dimensional motion pictures without the use of glasses
* Designed and built a wide variety of reinforced concrete structures.
Travis.
If you look into it, a great deal of crime is money oriented, a massive percentage. Again, A lot of the abhorrent behaviors that you describe can be in connection with money. Granted, not all of it, those things will need to be addressed further down the road.
I see. So we're supposed to sign up for this radical reimagining of society because it might solve behavioral problems leading to crime at some indeterminate time in the future?
>Okay, as I keep saying, most crime is money oriented. A massive percentage of crime would disappear very quickly if we evolved into a RBE, if you do not agree with that then just think about the south American islands or the islands around Fiji where money does not exist, they don't have crime, everything is shared. There would be no need for prostitution, drug dealers, addicts etc etc. If peoples necessities are threatened they will do whatever they can to keep those things, that's not the difference between a good or bad person, that's just life. If you take a nice ethical rich man, take away all his possessions including his money, dump him in a deprived area he will do whatever it takes to survive. And Yes, perhaps I should move to some island around Fiji.
>As for the remaining percentage of crime, that is why the transition period will be difficult. These things are not going to be ironed out overnight obviously.
Originally Posted by pickles1 View Post
I do not understand how you link communism to the Venus project. If you fully understand the concepts of TVP and still want to call it communism, call it whatever you want to call it. It is essentially like nothing else that has been attempted.
I only link Communism and TVP because both promise the moon but fail to take into account human nature. Now Communism compensated for that by creating brutal authoritarian regimes that worked tens of millions to death as slave labor and directly executed millions more. How TVP will try and suppress dissent and make sure everyone is working for "collective good" is something I can only speculate about but it is unsettling to see the same rhetoric (such as of "transition periods") that was used by Communism being used to try and validate TVP.
>What exactly do you attribute to human nature? Other than our primal instincts? Very interested to see your reply to this.
>Under a communist regime, people are told what to do, where and how to live, all aspects of life is controlled and TVP is a million miles away from that.
>No new system, not even an absolute perfect system everyone agreed on could not have a "transition period".
Originally Posted by pickles1 View Post
> I don't think a black market would arise.
That's a big claim since there have been unregulated markets for as long as humans have had any sort of economy.
>Ok, let me try this again. I hope we can agree Travis, most people in society today are extremely restricted to..where they can visit, what activities they can be part of etc etc. Now in a RBE we have this massive amount of freedom that we have never had before, we can visit wherever we want , take part in any activity we want to... Now in such a world, do you really think people would be so concerned about... what? Solid gold house? Original picasso paintings? 10 bars of solid gold? own private jet plane?
>That's without the psychological side of why people are so very materialistic today, perhaps because we have to be, as we have always been in competition for whatever we have. I can't go into this though because I'm not well enough informed.
Originally Posted by pickles1 View Post
Yes, there will be rare things that not everyone will be able to get instantly but it will only be a matter of time before these things and provided in abundance.
So everyone will get an original Picasso? How will that work? As for me, as I alluded to earlier in this thread, I want an entire harem of Anne Hathaway clones. Would I be allowed to or would that be slavery? So now suppose that some guy hints that he can get me what I want (suppose I want the Picasso to impress the real life, non clone, Anne Hathaway) and all I have to do is give him 30,000 meal vouchers. To get the meal vouchers I trade a dangerous drug I happen to have to some creepy guy who got them by selling off a 13 year old girl to another guy who got them in who knows what way.
>Why do people take drugs? because they feel oppressed by society, socially isolated, trapped. Usually, the more deprived the area the more people on drugs. In such an open, free world with so much more possibilities for exploration and opportunity, people will ignore that fact, they wont be satisfied they will always want more, black markets will arise, money in some form will come back into the equation. I cannot accept that. This cynicism has no support in view of humanity’s technical and social development throughout history.
Now wouldn't it be safer to have something else (like a currency perhaps?) to trade for that Picasso than to have all this dealing with drugs and little girls? Yeah, only a nutbag would propose that.
>That's insane, how ironic is that in view of the monetary system, it's because of the monetary thousands of kids, adults are being sold for sex all over the world. To somehow suggest TVP could possibly, somehow make it worse I find just absurd.
