The World After Coronavirus

Roboramma said:
Well, they certainly wouldn't have to invest in millions to make it work. Why would they? Maybe the banks would, but over here at least it all runs on the same system as the credit card machines.
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UK retailers have no capacity to display a QR code as the amount you owe, nor do they have the software/firmware to scan a QR/bar code on your phone as a way of taking payment. Even if they don't need to invest in extra equipment, adapting existing equipment would be expensive. Even just printing up cardboard QR codes to sit alongside products would be an investment.

That's not to say that they won't make the investment if they feel it'll ultimately be more profitable for them, but I imagine they'd prefer the systems that don't require any investment at all, which would be Apple Pay, etc.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
UK retailers have no capacity to display a QR code as the amount you owe, nor do they have the software/firmware to scan a QR/bar code on your phone as a way of taking payment. Even if they don't need to invest in extra equipment, adapting existing equipment would be expensive. Even just printing up cardboard QR codes to sit alongside products would be an investment.
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:confused:

Mrs Don does this every time she goes to Tesco.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
It's been like that for years in the UK. Every checkout has a card reader set up for the customer to use and in smaller shops or if the purchase costs too much you insert your card and input your PIN. More common, though, and for smaller purchases (just gone up to a limit of £45 to encourage people to do this during the outbreak) you literally just touch your card to the reader and the payment is made automatically. The advantage at the moment is that you don't even have to touch a keypad.

This is what Apple Pay, etc. does, allow you to do the same thing with your phone or watch - just do a security check (Face ID on the phone, PIN on the watch), and place your device near the card reader and it'll make the payment.
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This is what it has been for years here too...but only INSIDE (no PIN , no signing).
The Drive-thru had a person that took your card or cash and processed it on their own . Now there is a reader (on a wire) that is offered to you to insert the card. Never had to do that before.
Only the Drive-thru is open now so the inside method has become the outside as well.
 
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
UK retailers have no capacity to display a QR code as the amount you owe, nor do they have the software/firmware to scan a QR/bar code on your phone as a way of taking payment. Even if they don't need to invest in extra equipment, adapting existing equipment would be expensive. Even just printing up cardboard QR codes to sit alongside products would be an investment.

That's not to say that they won't make the investment if they feel it'll ultimately be more profitable for them, but I imagine they'd prefer the systems that don't require any investment at all, which would be Apple Pay, etc.
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Well, I don't know how it works elsewhere, but my credit card reader was supplied by the bank. When we wanted to start accepting WeChat pay, they supplied that too*.

And I don't think that printing up a QR code is the sort of investment that's going stop businesses from using new technology.

ETA: The new machine can handle credit cards, WeChat, and Alipay.
 
Roboramma said:
Well, I don't know how it works elsewhere, but my credit card reader was supplied by the bank. When we wanted to start accepting WeChat pay, they supplied that too*.
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I don't know how it is with supermarkets, but I do know that smaller businesses buy their own card readers. I'd imagine that ones that are supplied by the bank would also require an investment. At the very least I can say that Tesco avoided removing the usual contactless limit for Apple Pay for a few years because it would have required updating their payment software and they didn't 'know whether it was worth the investment.

And I don't think that printing up a QR code is the sort of investment that's going stop businesses from using new technology.
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Sure. As I say, if they determine it to be more profitable in the long run, then that's what they'll do. I'm just saying that they would no doubt prefer to use a system for which they already have the infrastructure in place. And since Apple, Samsung, and google would no doubt also prefer that their systems are used rather than an equivalent of WeChat, I expect that if they're sensible they'll come to an arrangement that will allow them to dominate the market. Because the alternative is obsolescence.
 
Roboramma said:
ETA: The new machine can handle credit cards, WeChat, and Alipay.
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Not my Visa card in most cases (and dont even think about AMEX!). I ended up just using cash everywhere around Shanghai and Anji, except for my hotel.

Bank of China did offer ATM...most places
I only figured it out after doing 'in person' currency exchange with triplicate forms plus passport ID at my hotel. The ATM was about 20 feet from the currency desk (in a hallway to the restroom) but they didnt inform me of this service!
Anyway, the ATM was a much better rate!!
 
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Sherkeu said:
Not my Visa card in most cases (and dont even think about AMEX!). I ended up just using cash everywhere around Shanghai and Anji, except for my hotel.
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True! We don't take Visa, only Union Pay, which is, as you say, mostly the norm as far as I'm aware in Shanghai, and I would assume, the rest of China as well.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
First, Google Pay is a re-brand of Google Wallet for consistency for consumers. It predated Apple Pay by a number of years. PayPal predated both.

You can use Google Pay on an iPhone to send money to family and friends. You can use PayPal on both types of phones as well. And Venmo. There are lots of options.
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I think that is part of the problem with this being adopted in the US and Canada - there are too many options. Trying to figure out which one you can use in any given situation probably leads to a lot of people just not bothering.

If one or two systems really began to dominate the market, then uptake by other users would probably increase.
 
The Don said:
The latter.
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Huh. I take it back, then.

No new technology would be needed, at least in places with self-checkouts. Normal checkouts would still require new equipment. And they'd still need to update the software, though.

So less outlay, but still some outlay.
 
Horatius said:
I think that is part of the problem with this being adopted in the US and Canada - there are too many options. Trying to figure out which one you can use in any given situation probably leads to a lot of people just not bothering.

If one or two systems really began to dominate the market, then uptake by other users would probably increase.
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This is exactly why I'm saying that google, Apple, and Samsung are likely going to start coordinating soon. Make it so it's less like each is a different method of payment and transferring money and more like each is a different brand of credit/debit card, or an account with a different bank. If I've got an HSBC account and you've got a Barclay's account then we can both use our debit cards to buy things in shops, we can both use any cash machine to get money out, and we can both use several methods including a phone app to transfer money from our accounts into the other person's account.

That's not currently true with these other methods of payment. They're each trying to be their own financial ecosystem, and that can't possibly be sustained.

As it is, some retailers in London are starting to accept Alipay. It seems that at the moment you need a Chinese bank account in order to use it so it's primarily for tourists, but it's one step closer to it taking over from other forms of payment. If I were Apple, google, or Samsung, I'd be keeping an eye on that and looking for a way to nip it in the bud.

In fact, not only would I be talking to the other two to try to allow transfers between the three, but I'd also be thinking about implementing QR code reading in the style of those other two apps and getting retailers on board.
 
Amazon already had test stores up in the real world where you just grabbed stuff and walked out, with all purchasing being done by RFID style tags.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Amazon already had test stores up in the real world where you just grabbed stuff and walked out, with all purchasing being done by RFID style tags.
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Yeah, I've seen an article urging businesses to start using this model because it'll save them money from having to have checkouts and employ people to staff them. My question is how do you prevent theft?
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Yeah, I've seen an article urging businesses to start using this model because it'll save them money from having to have checkouts and employ people to staff them. My question is how do you prevent theft?
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You’d still have some staff (need to replenish store, help customers out etc.) so just the same way as now with any store that has security tags, the alarm goes off when someone leaves without paying.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Yeah, I've seen an article urging businesses to start using this model because it'll save them money from having to have checkouts and employ people to staff them. My question is how do you prevent theft?
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Well, as I understand it, you can't. To enter the store you have to set up an account linked to a bank account and if you walk out with something you're charged for it. So unless you break a window there's really no way to "steal" anything. Although I'll assume there's some alert that goes off if you're over your balance.

I'm reminded of how Redbox handles people not returning DVDs/Games. You just got charged X amount for every day you have the DVD or Game and if you hold onto it for longer then a certain period you've just essentially bought it and they stop charging you.
 
Darat said:
You’d still have some staff (need to replenish store, help customers out etc.) so just the same way as now with any store that has security tags, the alarm goes off when someone leaves without paying.
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But what I mean is that checkouts are currently a checkpoint, if you will. It's cashiers who remove security tags. How does that work without a checkout and where it's common practice to just walk out of the shop with something under your arm?
 
JoeMorgue said:
Well, as I understand it, you can't. To enter the store you have to set up an account linked to a bank account and if you walk out with something you're charged for it. So unless you break a window there's really no way to "steal" anything. Although I'll assume there's some alert that goes off if you're over your balance.
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Oh I see, so it automatically tracks when you go in, when you go out, and what you have with you when you do? I could see that working.
 
Darat said:
You’d still have some staff (need to replenish store, help customers out etc.) so just the same way as now with any store that has security tags, the alarm goes off when someone leaves without paying.
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And then the laser systems and the targeting software take over and leave a pair of smoldering shoes in the car park. The automobile engine immobilizer is for just in case.
 
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