Split Thread The validity of classical physics (split from: DWFTTW)

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Cool. Now, do you have a picture of COUNTER-rotation?

(Hint, they're not the same thing!!)

I am afraid not Captain.
The torques are in opposition. In a plain shaft, they are not
The torque from the prop is in opposition to that of the wheel, or it would not work in wind.
The problem is that driving a cart by the prop, is not the same as driving the wheels. You simply lack the subtly of mind to see that, or how the 'spelling mistake' was connected to you.
 
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Ah.....

That would be why everyone keeps saying "You know, Humbers right about that Spork"

Or maybe it's just the voices in your head doing that.....

No, Captain, it is firmly in my favour. You are an easy target, as I fully expected a Captain would be.
 
Cool. Now, reduce the angle between the gears to less than 90deg. What direction are they turning now?

No Captain, once again you are not good at turning things in your head.

They are in opposition for all angles that do not require that the surface be re-mated. Simple.
 
No Captain, once again you are not good at turning things in your head.

They are in opposition for all angles that do not require that the surface be re-mated. Simple.

Simply-wrong. Anyone with a "Subtle mind" could see that.
 
Simply-wrong. Anyone with a "Subtle mind" could see that.

Here are some more. Remarkable how a crown gear is just like two meshed gears. May help you with that 3-D rotation problem.

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Ah...
This will be that "Subtle mind' of yours at work....

ETA- BTW, do you think you are being offensive calling me "Captain"? That IS my title.

(1) Yes

(2) I know that. And your response is hilarious.
 
Here are some more. Remarkable how a crown gear is just like two meshed gears. May help you with that 3-D rotation problem.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12968&stc=1&d=1234118921[/qimg]


Yes? And? The gears in the same plane are rotating in opposite directions.

Those at 90deg are rotating...well..at 90deg. Neither direction of rotation is "Opposite" a gear at a right angle to the other gear!

Now find a picture of two gears meshing at 45deg.....

ETA Like, say THESE:-

14037_39_3.jpg
 
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As a lot of people have already commented on, this particular thread has been a study in humber's evasions and counter(rotating!) arguments. His latest is of special interest to me, that of the tire that doesn't move unless it is smaller than it used to be. An interesting concept but one that only exists in humber's mind, and then likely only as an attempt to explain away the picture of "Dyno" Don's Maverick launching on wrinkle wall slicks. Hard to continue denying a picture with the current line of garbage about contact patch when the picture clearly showed differently.

So now we have another attempt at a convoluted line of reasoning about the tire needing to be "shorter" rather than admitting that any decrease in diameter is because of increased load from weight transfer - which of course humber was going to use in his next argument but with some weird twist that would invalidate the concept.

This is an insight into what humber has been doing through most of the two threads, taking a position and defending it (or avoiding defending it) through whatever devious methods he can. It appears that he lost his script in the last few days, because he's really starting to contradict himself. Until now he has been fairly consistent. I think he needs some sleep.

Let's see how humber parses this: if one tire is fully inflated and an identical tire is only partially inflated so that the height of the supporting axles are different (the partially inflated tire's axle having less height from the ground), will the partially inflated tire rotate faster when both tires are moving over the ground at the same ground speed? Will the torque that the tire transfers from the axle to the contact patch on the ground be altered in any way by the difference in tire height?
 
Yes? And? The gears in the same plane are rotating in opposite directions.

Those at 90deg are rotating...well..at 90deg. Neither direction of rotation is "Opposite" a gear at a right angle to the other gear!
No opposite is not the same as not-backwardness, Captain.

If the two shafts are at 180 degrees, you get the simple straight-kut gears that everyone agrees counter-rotate. (the green gears of the second set of photos)

Now find a picture of two gears meshing at 45deg.....
Go fetch a stick...

The first picture is good enough to meet your peculiar demands, but as the text says, "independently of the angle the gears axes must intersect (at point 0). This is true for all cases.
Including you ETA.
 

Then you shouldn't be quoting Arkaein's work without attribution. It appears that a (former) accountant has more of an understanding of physics than you do. Next time you try to use someone else's work without giving proper credit you will be reported. That sort of behavior is frowned upon in the science communities and is a violation of the membership agreement here.


I am claiming that I designed a 3-axis accelerometer, capable of detecting 0.1 degrees of inclination up to a working temperature of 160 degrees C.

Did you steal the work for that design too? Perhaps we should investigate.
 
No opposite is not the same as not-backwardness, Captain.

If the two shafts are at 180 degrees, you get the simple straight-kut gears that everyone agrees counter-rotate. (the green gears of the second set of photos)


Go fetch a stick...

The first picture is good enough to meet your peculiar demands, but as the text says, "independently of the angle the gears axes must intersect (at point 0). This is true for all cases.
Including you ETA.

And "Intersect" has the same meaning as "Counter (or was is Contra) Rotate?"

Put propellers on the end of the shafts of the gears in my diagram. Are the turning the same way? or opposite? Or is that to subtle?
 
As a lot of people have already commented on, this particular thread has been a study in humber's evasions and counter(rotating!) arguments. His latest is of special interest to me, that of the tire that doesn't move unless it is smaller than it used to be. An interesting concept but one that only exists in humber's mind, and then likely only as an attempt to explain away the picture of "Dyno" Don's Maverick launching on wrinkle wall slicks. Hard to continue denying a picture with the current line of garbage about contact patch when the picture clearly showed differently.
I have plenty of supporting references, Mender. The more you bluster and deny, the more potent they become.
Only a fool accepts photos as irrefutable evidence. (Actually it supports my case, and not yours, but I prefer better evidence)
Even after the obvious farce of the jeep on the hill, you persist.

So now we have another attempt at a convoluted line of reasoning about the tire needing to be "shorter" rather than admitting that any decrease in diameter is because of increased load from weight transfer - which of course humber was going to use in his next argument but with some weird twist that would invalidate the concept.
Standard engineering. The description is figurative, but the principle is correct.
Put down "Hot Wheels" and pick up a text book.

This is an insight into what humber has been doing through most of the two threads, taking a position and defending it (or avoiding defending it) through whatever devious methods he can. It appears that he lost his script in the last few days, because he's really starting to contradict himself. Until now he has been fairly consistent. I think he needs some sleep.
No, you have been working on the assumption that you are right, and so taken a light-hearted condescending attitude. I am simply calling you out on your knowledge. You can't sell "frames of reference" flim-flam in this case. It has left Spork speechless.

Let's see how humber parses this: if one tire is fully inflated and an identical tire is only partially inflated so that the height of the supporting axles are different (the partially inflated tire's axle having less height from the ground),
Straight off the bat error. Tyre inflation is not the issue. It is generally true that the load does not change the tyre pressure, but that is not the case for a rolling wheel. There are local pressure changes at the point of deflection, for example. If you make your world out of simplified objects, you get a simple world. However, it is those "little things" that make the difference between the ideal and the real. Tyres do work, they get hot.
A truly ideal wheel, cannot be driven forward in rotation by its axis. That is a fact.

..will the partially inflated tire rotate faster when both tires are moving over the ground at the same ground speed? Will the torque that the tire transfers from the axle to the contact patch on the ground be altered in any way by the difference in tire height?

Utterly misconstrued and irrelevant. An inane question, designed to ensure a suitably vague outcome couched in your favour.
Now, that is certainly your M.O., Mender.
 
And "Intersect" has the same meaning as "Counter (or was is Contra) Rotate?"

Put propellers on the end of the shafts of the gears in my diagram. Are the turning the same way? or opposite? Or is that to subtle?

They are counter-rotating, but at different shaft angles. That angle does not change the relatives torques within the shafts.
 
Then you shouldn't be quoting Arkaein's work without attribution. It appears that a (former) accountant has more of an understanding of physics than you do. Next time you try to use someone else's work without giving proper credit you will be reported. That sort of behavior is frowned upon in the science communities and is a violation of the membership agreement here.
I have never quoted Arkaein. You are wrong.
Your faux attempts at scientific integrity (indeed to speak for science and its governing bodies), demonstrate your fully-amateur status.

Did you steal the work for that design too? Perhaps we should investigate.
A hollow threat, of course. The "we" had has been well and truly neutered.

I made the prototype at home as an exercise in curiosity. The opportunity for commercialization came later. I have improvements in mind.
In fact, along with some Helmholtz coils, it is part of an inertial navigation system.

BTW. I built a device to rotate the accelerometer in order to check its hysteresis, amongst other things. A simple device, comprising a motor and some slip rings to supply the power and get data.
 
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They are counter-rotating, but at different shaft angles. That angle does not change the relatives torques within the shafts.

So Semper was right. You DO believe a single shaft is "Counter rotating" with itself!!
 
Utterly misconstrued and irrelevant. An inane question, designed to ensure a suitably vague outcome couched in your favour.
Now, that is certainly your M.O., Mender.

And your whole post is a perfect example of yours.:rolleyes: Still afraid to answer any questions.
 
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