CORed
Penultimate Amazing
A damn lie.
Split Thread The validity of classical physics (split from: DWFTTW)
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A damn lie.
You missed it.
A wheel with the contact point with the ground,directly below the axle, cannot travel. It will slide.
When power is applied to the axle, stress develops between the contact point and the axle, causing the axle to move forward against a trailing contact patch.
As you can see, there is a problem, because that would require an increase in wheel diameter for that contact point to be sustained. It's "further away" from the axle, than a contact point directly below the axle.
Of course, the wheel cannot stretch, but the wheel ( an or road) can compress to accommodate that.
This causes a difference in relative velocities of the wheel's material at the contact point and elsewhere. This is one view of 'slip'. For tyres, it is quite complex.
Well, Captain. I suppose you think that when you land (oh dear), the wheels will not slow you down because they will be travelling along the road at the same speed.
You attribute "pure reason" to my arguments. I say that the videos support my arguments and not yours.
You counter with anecdotal testimony, that must be against that "pure reason," that you attribute to me.
CORed
Penultimate Amazing
You forget. The belt is not the road. So, in the humberverse, with it's action-at-a-distance ground drag force, a wheel turning on a treadmill belt can only turn at the exact speed that will allow the vehicle it is attached to to remain stationary with respect to the ground. The cart can only move forward if the wheels slip. I still haven't quite figured out how slippage allows the wheel to move forward wrt the ground in the Humberverse, but remember: The Humberverse is not just stranger than we imagine. It's stranger than we can imagine (except for people with "special" gifts, like Humber and Humb).
It's called a runway and,err, I have no idea what the rest of this is supposed to mean.
CORed
Penultimate Amazing
Humber, if you had asserted that the sky is yellow with mauve polka dots, and somebody posted links to 5000 photographs with a blue sky, you would claim that the photographs support your claim that the sky is yellow with mauve polka dots.
That's how delusional thinking works.
Well no. The belt is the "equivalent" of a moving raod, set in the ground. That is the treadmill observer, is an observer on the ground, watching belt. He sees the road going backwards, and the cart staying still. He sees a belt observer, moving backwards, while the cart stays still. Now, there's your 'action at distance'
Th frictional force from the belt is real. It is the result of gravity, and the coefficient of friction to the belt.
When held, that friction is at a maximum, and so is the 'drag' force.
When released, things change. The propeller and wheel shafts spin in counter rotation, forcing the power consumed to a minimum. This is possible because the restraining force is released, and the coefficient of friction can fall to a lower value, and so the drag.
The cart does not move, or meet any velocity dependent opposing forces, so it does no real work. The hand does provide a load, so raising the forces above the level when the cart is free.
You are the smaller group. The treadmill has no standing in science, or academic support. It is ridiculous.
You had no idea why you posted about your car.
Do you have an idea why you post anything Humber?
I posted about the car because it was an exact corollary of what you stated as a fact "The wheels cannot go faster than the belt". Of course they can. If you put an electrically powered model car on the belt, and ran it so its speed was greater than the speed of the belt, it would run off the end.
The carts is powered by the propellor. There is nothing stopping it moving faster than the belt. There is no reason the wheels need to "Slip" to do so.
I also note no video, no negative drag quotes (It's somehow morphed into "Negative viscocity", maybe you thought we wouldn't notice), no Gas Cavitation and now no magic accelerometer.
You said the accelerometer was "Commercially available" . You later said it was "My work".
I'm concluding YOU think you have made such a thing, but seem suprisingly reluctant to sell it.
Wonder why.....
Dan O.
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It sometimes gets to where everything humber says is wrong.
•"A wheel with the contact point with the ground,directly below the axle, cannot travel. It will slide." says humber.
•"When power is applied to the axle, stress develops between the contact point and the axle, causing the axle to move forward against a trailing contact patch." says humber.
•As you can see, there is a problem, because that would require an increase in wheel diameter for that contact point to be sustained. It's "further away" from the axle, than a contact point directly below the axle. says humber.
•"Of course, the wheel cannot stretch, but the wheel ( an or road) can compress to accommodate that." says humber
•"This causes a difference in relative velocities of the wheel's material at the contact point and elsewhere. This is one view of 'slip'. For tyres, it is quite complex." says humber
That's everything so I couldn't have missed any.
CORed
Penultimate Amazing
Okay, so that's how it works in the Humberverse. Fascinating delusion.
In our universe, when the cart is held on the belt, the friction (about the only thing that's somewhat similar to the Humberverse) from the belt spins the wheels. The wheels, through the axle, angle gear drive, and shaft (in Sporks cart; Goodman's just uses a belt with a 90 degree twist) , drives the propeller. The propeller, spinning in the air, generates thrust in the opposite direction of the treadmill belt. Once the prop has been spun up, the cart can be released, as the propeller generates more that enough thrust to maintain the cart's position on the belt. Note: Only in the humberverse are rotating objects with axes at a 90 degree angle considered to be "counter-rotating". Also, in the real world, even if they were counter rotating, it would not reduce power consumption.
Subduction Zone
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I think humber's obsession with the power having to be behind the axle is due to his constant running out of gas (cars don't need gas if they can hover) as a result he is always getting out of his vehicle and pushing it from behind.
Dan O.
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It appears that humber isn't even trying to be correct any more (if he ever was). So perhaps it is time to start the third volume of the humber lists (following the pattern that Oolon Colupid used in his trilogy of philosophical blockbusters).
Humbledinger, the machine (referred to as cart) tends to reduce the relative motion between the mass entities it is in contact with. That is, the local airmass and the road surface. Do you agree with that Mr Humble?
The cart generates force which tends to speed up the road surface in a direction toward the front of the cart (ie, if on a belt, it tends to slow the treadmill). The road force, when the cart is at any steady speed is at balance with the thrust force generatred by the propeller. Get it so far Mr Humberstein? The propeller tends to reduce the speed of the airmass wrt the road surface, if that means Wind across Earth, then it tends to slow that flow, if it is the Air in the Treadmill Room, then it tends to flow the air in the direction of belt motion. In both cases Mr Humpster, the idea is for the machine to reduce the speed of the air wrt the road surface. in order to do this Mr Bumber, there must be some energy taken away from the organised (uni directional)Airflow/Roadway system. This energy is lost in frictional heating of the machine elements and to dissorganised air movement. Have you got all that Mr Humble. I think you do, it has been said explicitly and implicitly hundreds of times. I just wanted to say it again so that you would have something to deny. Your posts have wandered into quite inane attempts at sidetracking.
The cart generates force which tends to speed up the road surface in a direction toward the front of the cart (ie, if on a belt, it tends to slow the treadmill). The road force, when the cart is at any steady speed is at balance with the thrust force generatred by the propeller. Get it so far Mr Humberstein? The propeller tends to reduce the speed of the airmass wrt the road surface, if that means Wind across Earth, then it tends to slow that flow, if it is the Air in the Treadmill Room, then it tends to flow the air in the direction of belt motion. In both cases Mr Humpster, the idea is for the machine to reduce the speed of the air wrt the road surface. in order to do this Mr Bumber, there must be some energy taken away from the organised (uni directional)Airflow/Roadway system. This energy is lost in frictional heating of the machine elements and to dissorganised air movement. Have you got all that Mr Humble. I think you do, it has been said explicitly and implicitly hundreds of times. I just wanted to say it again so that you would have something to deny. Your posts have wandered into quite inane attempts at sidetracking.
Only a vehicle that has an independent power source, such as an engine, can independently control the velocity of its wheels.
The cart gets its power from the belt, so it is not independently powered, meaning the wheels are slave to the belt. The rear wheels of a rear-wheel drive car, do not behave like the slave front wheels.
I am sure you though all of that through.
You misunderstand 'slip' because you see no other possible meaning than the one you already have. Look it up.
The propeller is geared to the wheel and has no choice but to spin at a rate determined by the belt.
The only possible option, is that the wheels may spin slower than the maximum implied by the belt, but for this to happen the wheels must break traction in the manner of a car on ice. That is the only way that can happen.
If the cart is placed on the belt, it cannot possible move up the belt, if its wheels are spinning as if on ice. The other option, is that the wheels come rapidly to speed by being held. That is near instantaneous acceleration to windspeed. The cart cannot climb the belt, by any means, but remains at the artificially induced state of windspeed by the mechanisms I have described.
Again, all those ideas are actually beyond you.
If you are interested in negative drag, look it up. You must be a great instructor with that attitude.
Yes, I designed and developed it.
Not my product to sell
Here is my reply, I sent to you 4th February 2009, 09:50 PM
Re: Balance meter
Originally Posted by RossFW
OK, Interested it this device.
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They are a 3 axis device. They are specialised and expensive. However, the yield is low, and there are a lot of rejects that work but fail say the temprature test. These had a scrap value of 600 pounds(UK) four years ago. I can contact them if you like.
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I withdraw that offer.
This will be easy, it's from Simperton
I was right. No, it maintains a fixed position, as a result of that mass.
Correct. The force required to maintain the fixed position, has little relation to the speed of the belt.
I think you have flatulence.
It stands to reason Distemper, that the losses will end up as heat.
That is all the work the treadmill motor does. No work is done on the cart, because it remains in place. It takes little work to stay in place, as I am sure you know.
Your mistake is to think that putting a belt under a wheel, is like the vehicle is moving. That's a funny idea, isn't it?
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