The usual Kevin election post.

[Kevin_Lowe]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

Yes, and I gave it weeks ago. You've had weeks to explain why she isn't either a liar or a conspiracy woo-woo, and have failed to do so.

I win.

I guess I must have missed where you did that. Link to it some time just so I can read it and become enlightened.

Anyway, moving right along.

News breaking in Ohio. Sherole Eaton, Hocking County deputy director of elections, has signed an affidavit stating that she witnessed a technician from Triad, yet another Republican-linked voting machine company (surely coincidence) show up to their offices just before the recount to dismantle the tabulating computer and fiddle with it, and give them some friendly advice on how to crock the recount so that "discrepancies" would be hidden.

A subtlety that readers of this board should appreciate: despite obviously having come to fiddle with the machine, the technician still had to ask for a screwdriver. I think we might safely assume that the search for a screwdriver took at least one witness out of the room. It's exactly the kind of sneakiness Randi has talked about using when he has been "pulling a Geller" on the credulous.

Link: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-b...thread&om=76&forum=DCForumID4410&viewmode=all

Badnarik, Cobb and Kerry have tacked this gem onto their ongoing lawsuit over the "recount".

http://rawstory.com/exclusives/kerry_ohio_suit_1215.php

I guess Sherole Eaton is a liar and a woo-woo too, or maybe there's perfectly good reason for technicians from less than disinterested voting machine companies to be fiddling with tabulating machines before a recount... and giving specific advice on defeating recount measures.

Ah, let's stop mucking about. This is hard evidence of conspiracy to commit electoral fraud. We have a credible eyewitness, we have an affidavit, we have means, motive and opportunity. This is not a glitch, it's not a discrepancy, it's a man conspiring with others in an attempt to defeat a recount and it's on the record now.

No, it's not evidence of fraud outside Hocking County. It's just proof that it can happen and that it has happened, and that believing it hasn't happened elsewhere is a faith-based position.

Edited to add: More Ohio fun in the form of affidavit's signed by witnesses to straightforward voter intimidation, blatant and partisan misallocation of voting machines, and perjury to cover up said misallocation by Franklin County election director, Matt Damschroder.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/985

 

[DaveW]

I started a more detailed reply, but at the point where you started saying things like "screaming conspiracy whenever they don't get their way" I realised that going on the available evidence you are here to sling mud rather than to have a sensible discussion.

So far I've usually managed a polite reply to trolls, but it's after midnight and I just don't have a polite reply in me at the moment.

'Night. [/QUOTE]

Sorry it took so long to get back to this, as I was travelling, but: all my mentions of such things are taken from your very own links (with my perception oftheir content, by way of disclaimer). Since the tone of the links you provide for this discussion are typically full of assuredeness that fraud has occured, I certainly don't see this as "slinging mud." As far as "available evidence" goes, there really isn't a whole lot, just conjecture so far, which has been my point all along. Hard evidence, please, Kevin, not conjecture! Thanks!

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

Originally posted by woo-woo
I guess I must have missed where you did that. Link to it some time just so I can read it and become enlightened.

Go re-read your threads on the subject. The person repeatedly mentioning that Keith Olberman had covered the "voting fraud"? That was me. You probably don't remember it now because you chose to ignore it then. Didn't quite fit into your media conspiracy theory. I guess you thought it would be forgotten. Wrong.

I win.

Originally posted by woo-woo

News breaking in Ohio. Sherole Eaton, Hocking County deputy director of elections, has signed an affidavit stating that she witnessed a technician from Triad, yet another Republican-linked voting machine company (surely coincidence) show up to their offices just before the recount to dismantle the tabulating computer and fiddle with it, and give them some friendly advice on how to crock the recount so that "discrepancies" would be hidden.

Evidence?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

Go re-read your threads on the subject. The person repeatedly mentioning that Keith Olberman had covered the "voting fraud"? That was me. You probably don't remember it now because you chose to ignore it then. Didn't quite fit into your media conspiracy theory. I guess you thought it would be forgotten. Wrong.

I win.

I guess the reply I made at the time went over your head then. Oh well.

Evidence?

If you had read the link you'd already be aware that the evidence is a signed affidavit describing events witnessed by multiple people.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Sorry it took so long to get back to this, as I was travelling, but: all my mentions of such things are taken from your very own links (with my perception oftheir content, by way of disclaimer). Since the tone of the links you provide for this discussion are typically full of assuredeness that fraud has occured, I certainly don't see this as "slinging mud."

This is precisely the kind of mudslinging I was referring to. You haven't cited any particular articles, links or authors. Nor have you established that any of these "typical" articles can sensibly be said to be representative of everyone who thinks fraud is possible or likely. You're just making totally unsupported claims that everything I have linked to is intellectually illegitimate because it is "typically full of assuredeness that fraud has occured".

It's just an empty attack. It's worthless.

As far as "available evidence" goes, there really isn't a whole lot, just conjecture so far, which has been my point all along. Hard evidence, please, Kevin, not conjecture! Thanks!

There's plenty of hard evidence of suspicious behaviour, but you'd know that if you'd read all the links you said you did. Spurious terrorist threats justifying lockdowns in Ohio, destruction and falsification of voting records in Volusia, the recent eyewitness affidavit of Triad employees fiddling with voting computers before a recount and coaching electoral officials on how to falsify the recount, any number of "glitches" that have thrown votes to Republican candidates and which remain unexplained except as "glitches", Curtis' testimony that Florida Republicans were looking into rigging voting machines as early as 2000, recalcitrance at both the government and corporate levels regarding attempts to institute or mandate paper trails, convicted computer criminals being hired as lead developers for voting software, and probably a few other serious issues I can't name off the top of my head.

Maybe that's not a problem in your mind. Whatever. In my mind elections are not innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. They have to be above reproach, and that's a standard that elections meet in many places in the world. Just not in the glorious "land of the free".

 

[Grammatron]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

News breaking in Ohio. Sherole Eaton, Hocking County deputy director of elections, has signed an affidavit stating that she witnessed a technician from Triad, yet another Republican-linked voting machine company (surely coincidence) show up to their offices just before the recount to dismantle the tabulating computer and fiddle with it, and give them some friendly advice on how to crock the recount so that "discrepancies" would be hidden.

Did you actually read the affidavit, your summary is not very accurate at all except for the last part about advice.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

Did you actually read the affidavit, your summary is not very accurate at all except for the last part about advice.

Yes.

What do you see as being inaccurate and why?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

I guess the reply I made at the time went over your head then. Oh well.

I take this as an admission that, once again, you are dodging the issue. Oh well.

Folks, that's what conspiracy woo-woos like Kevin do. When someone asks questions that don't fit their conspiracy theory, the dodge it. This is a perfect example.

If you had read the link you'd already be aware that the evidence is a signed affidavit describing events witnessed by multiple people.

Oh, I see. So you are saying that someone signed an affidavit that said Triad is a "Republican-linked voting machine company"? Oh, that's rich! So if I sign an affidavit saying Triad's CEO is a martian, that makes it true? Are you really this gullable?

 

[Ion]

...
There's plenty of hard evidence of suspicious behaviour, but you'd know that if you'd read all the links you said you did. Spurious terrorist threats justifying lockdowns in Ohio, destruction and falsification of voting records in Volusia, the recent eyewitness affidavit of Triad employees fiddling with voting computers before a recount and coaching electoral officials on how to falsify the recount, any number of "glitches" that have thrown votes to Republican candidates and which remain unexplained except as "glitches", Curtis' testimony that Florida Republicans were looking into rigging voting machines as early as 2000, recalcitrance at both the government and corporate levels regarding attempts to institute or mandate paper trails, convicted computer criminals being hired as lead developers for voting software, and probably a few other serious issues I can't name off the top of my head.
...

Good summary.

An honest -not dishonest- investigation is needed.

From what I have read so far, the recount taking place in Ohio right now, is fishy, including the Traid employee having tampered with the database of the voting machine without neutral observers to hold back this tampering and the Traid employee having told election officials how to tamper with the database, and also including doing the recount in government assigned precints but not in randomly chosen precints.

 

[Ion]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

...
Oh, I see. So you are saying that someone signed an affidavit that said Triad is a "Republican-linked voting machine company"?...
...
...this gullable?

Does anyone in this forum -pro Bush or anti Bush- understand the same thing that Scrotchy claims in this quote to 'understand' from what Kevin wrote?

To me, Scrotchy is a dense infant.

Who struggles to spell gullible, and gets as 'far' as gullable.

In Scrotchy's native language, no less.

Let me predict Scrotchy's reply to my post:

not related to the content of justifying his misunderstanding of what Kevin wrote, but a sentimental personal attack (he discovered recently the word 'lapdog' and will want to abuse it) with an abundance of juvenile exclamation marks.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

Does anyone in this forum -pro Bush or anti Bush- understand the same thing that Scrotchy claims in this quote to 'understand' from what Kevin wrote?

To me, Scrotchy is a dense infant.

Who struggles to spell gullible, and gets as 'far' as gullable.

In Scrotchy's native language, no less.

Let me predict Scrotchy's reply to my post:

not related to the content of justifying his misunderstanding of what Kevin wrote, but a sentimental personal attack (he discovered recently the word 'lapdog' and will want to abuse it) with an abundance of juvenile exclamation marks.

My little pet Ion is back! Arf arf my little pet! Now fetch my slippers! And while you're at it, could you please translate your post into English?

 

[Grammatron]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

Yes.

What do you see as being inaccurate and why?

Well the afidavit sounds like she was expecting him and when he came in the computer -- which is 14 years old -- was not working properly. He apperently repaired it using parts from another machine also in the same office and then told her how to input informating to retrieve what you want.

I am also a bit suspecious of her knowledge of computers, sounds like the guy through around some terms and she did not hear or comprehand everything.

Of course once this all is investigated we will know what actually happened.

 

[Ion]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

That's what I predicted in my previous post:

My little pet Ion is back! Arf arf my little pet! Now fetch my slippers! And while you're at it, could you please translate your post into English?

Didn't I?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

That's what I predicted in my previous post:

Didn't I?

Arf arf!!!

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The usual Kevin election post.

Well the afidavit sounds like she was expecting him and when he came in the computer -- which is 14 years old -- was not working properly. He apperently repaired it using parts from another machine also in the same office and then told her how to input informating to retrieve what you want.

I am also a bit suspecious of her knowledge of computers, sounds like the guy through around some terms and she did not hear or comprehand everything.

Of course once this all is investigated we will know what actually happened.

Well, Rep. John Conyers apparently sent a letter to "both the FBI Special agent in charge in Ohio and the Hocking County Prosecutor" asking them to investigate this incident. Whatever those two people are - I'm not clued up on what roles those people play in the US legal system.

The bottom line is that whatever the cover story for fiddling around with the machinery was and whether or not it turns out to be plausible, this guy (Michael Barbian, Jr.) showed up as a representative of a voting machine company to provide advice on falsifying recount data.

As part of the Democratic staff’s investigation into irregularities in the 2004 election and following up on a lead provided to me by Green Party Presidential Candidate, David Cobb, I have learned that Sherole Eaton, a Deputy Director of Board of Elections in Hocking County, Ohio, has first hand knowledge of inappropriate and likely illegal election tampering in the Ohio presidential election in violation of federal and state law.

Link: http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=495

It would be nice if the FBI picked the guy up and grilled him, but then again my knowledge of US police procedure comes entirely from TV and film. So I don't know if they will do that.

 

[Ed]

It may be a bit cynical but I really believe that if Bush lost we would be hearing the exact same stories regarding irregularities in favor of Kerry, with as much or as little support as the current allegation have.

That is to say that we have a flawed system and it is doubtful whether, in our lifetimes, every vote will be legitimate and/or counted.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

It may be a bit cynical but I really believe that if Bush lost we would be hearing the exact same stories regarding irregularities in favor of Kerry, with as much or as little support as the current allegation have.

That is to say that we have a flawed system and it is doubtful whether, in our lifetimes, every vote will be legitimate and/or counted.

Bingo.

 

[Ion]

It may be a bit cynical but I really believe that if Bush lost we would be hearing the exact same stories regarding irregularities in favor of Kerry, with as much or as little support as the current allegation have.

That is to say that we have a flawed system and it is doubtful whether, in our lifetimes, every vote will be legitimate and/or counted.

No, the blame is on Bush' side not on Kerry' side:

document the first instance where a voting infraction on Novemeber 2nd. did benefit Kerry.

All voting infractions benefit 100% Bush.

 

[Ed]

No, the blame is on Bush' side not on Kerry' side:

document the first instance where a voting infraction on Novemeber 2nd. did benefit Kerry.

All voting infractions benefit 100% Bush.

Why the hell would the winner care? If it were reversed they would look and, lo, they would be there.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

document the first instance where a voting infraction on Novemeber 2nd. did benefit Kerry.

document the first instance where a voting infraction on Novemeber 2nd. did benefit Bush.

(Note: I made no attempt to repair Ion's horrible spelling, grammar or punctuation in my reply.)