The UFO And Alien Disclosure

King of the Americas said:
"EVERYTIME some reports a UFO, we investigate and find that they DIDN'T see alien craft, but rather just some mis-identified NORMAL event or object.

So we have decided that UFO's don't exist, and we won't be investigating any more sightings."

That sound perfectly scientific and reasonable to me!

*Insert roll eyes icon here.*
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"EVERY TIME someone reports a leprechaun, we investigate and find that they DIDN'T see mythical creatures, but rather just some mis-identified NORMAL event or object.

So we have decided that leprechauns don't exist, and we won't be investigating any more sightings."

That sound perfectly scientific and reasonable to me!

*Insert roll eyes icon here.*

Have you anything to say about the psychological and sociological science that offers very credible explanations for why people report UFO experiences?
 
I never understand why UFO hunters never seem to discuss the logistics of actually getting from one place in the cosmos to another. The closest star (not the sun) to earth is the alpha centaui trinary system and it is 4.3 light years away. That is thousands of time greater than the distance to pluto. Within 50 light years, we have not discovered even a wisp of EM energy that approaches evidence that it came from a technical civilization.

The "ignorant" evidence indicates no technical civilization anywhere near our system. But even if there was, consider the amount of energy required to get from there to hear. If chemical energy is used...it would take a tank about the size of the earth...I don't think that will work. Even if fusion power was used the tank would still be quite large.

I suppose they could build a ramjet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_ramjet

Or perhaps an orion type project...but we would see them coming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

Antimatter could be used...if you could make a few kilograms...but that is really hard and would take an enormous amount of energy and impossible to store.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

And then of course, why did they decide to come here?

glenn

ETA: Dr. Greer believes in free energy machines...it is difficult to trust someone that doesn't understand thermodynamics.
 
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Hindmost said:
I never understand why UFO hunters never seem to discuss the logistics of actually getting from one place in the cosmos to another. The closest star (not the sun) to earth is the alpha centaui trinary system and it is 4.3 light years away. That is thousands of time greater than the distance to pluto. Within 50 light years, we have not discovered even a wisp of EM energy that approaches evidence that it came from a technical civilization.

The "ignorant" evidence indicates no technical civilization anywhere near our system. But even if there was, consider the amount of energy required to get from there to hear. If chemical energy is used...it would take a tank about the size of the earth...I don't think that will work. Even if fusion power was used the tank would still be quite large.

I suppose they could build a ramjet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_ramjet

Or perhaps an orion type project...but we would see them coming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

Antimatter could be used...if you could make a few kilograms...but that is really hard and would take an enormous amount of energy and impossible to store.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter

And then of course, why did they decide to come here?

glenn

ETA: Dr. Greer believes in free energy machines...it is difficult to trust someone that doesn't understand thermodynamics.
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*I have always wondered why it is so important for 'them' to have to travel here from somewhere else...

I mean, they may not be EXTRA terresterial at all. They could be from one of our oceans, the dark side of the moon, or one of Jupiter's moons. My point is that at TONS ofd places they could be from, that don't require intersteller travel, that we haven't fully investigated.

We know less about the bottom half of our oceans, than we do about Pluto.
 
King of the Americas said:
*I have always wondered why it is so important for 'them' to have to travel here from somewhere else...

I mean, they may not be EXTRA terresterial at all. They could be from one of our oceans, the dark side of the moon, or one of Jupiter's moons. My point is that at TONS ofd places they could be from, that don't require intersteller travel, that we haven't fully investigated.

We know less about the bottom half of our oceans, than we do about Pluto.
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True, but I expect we would have detected some of the remnants of technology if a species that could build space ships was around the system here. For an ocean going species to have a technology based society would be difficult since energy and heat are required to manufacture stuff...hard to do under water.

Chance of some type of life in the solar system is reasonable--especially after we discovered tube worms under the earth oceans. The chance of that life being a technical society is limited due to lack of evidence.

glenn
 
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arthwollipot said:
Not true. People have been to the bottom half of our oceans, as have robotic probes. We have never sent even a robot to Pluto.
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[nitpick] we have sent one, it just won't get there for quite a few years[/nitpick]

glenn
 
Hindmost said:
[nitpick] we have sent one, it just won't get there for quite a few years[/nitpick]

glenn
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Fair enough. One probe. Compare that to the hundreds of benthic expeditions that have been done since Trieste first took humans to the bottom of the deepest part of the oceans. The old straw is no longer true.

Now, if it had been "we know more about the moon than we do about the ocean floor" I would not have been able to disagree.
 
The thing that's wrong with ideas of "Grey" aliens and such is that they all resemble humans. Whether it be a coincidence or not, it's hard to believe how some single celled bacteria could evolve into a complex organism that so conveniently resembles a human even though they aren't related to humans and live on a different planet, so...yeah.
Anyway, I do think there is complex large life living far away in different galaxies, but it would be too far for them to reach Earth.
 
CryptidFan said:
The thing that's wrong with ideas of "Grey" aliens and such is that they all resemble humans. Whether it be a coincidence or not, it's hard to believe how some single celled bacteria could evolve into a complex organism that so conveniently resembles a human even though they aren't related to humans and live on a different planet, so...yeah.
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There's actually something to be said for the anthropological form, in that it is a pretty efficient structure for an intelligent being, but there's certainly a lot of scope.
 
My friend thinks that aliens are really just humans from the future who are time-travelling.

And any bipedal body shape is suitable for a highly intelligent creature. The "dinosauroid" was hypothesized to have the shape of a human, but now people think they were more shaped like birds, yet if they existed they would get to be as smart as humans.
 
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CryptidFan said:
My friend thinks that aliens are really just humans from the future who are time-travelling.
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Tell your friend that time travel will only be possible to a time after the invention of the time-travelling device. :)

CryptidFan said:
And any bipedal body shape is suitable for a highly intelligent creature. The "dinosauroid" was hypothesized to have the shape of a human, but now people think they were more shaped like birds, yet if they existed they would get to be as smart as humans.
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It's not specifically bipedality that makes anthropomorphism a suitable body shape for an intelligent being. Opposable thumbs and binocular vision seem to me to be more important than bipedalism.
 
If you believe in the ancient texts, 'supposedly' the reason they resemble us, is that 'they' beget us, after seeing the daughters of men and picking out the best looking, to become their breeding stock.

Cross a 'Grey' with a Bigfoot, and you get the Hairless Ape, a.k.a.- Humans.

Ever wonder why there is no genetic link between us and the Neanderthal?
 
What do you mean exactly by "no genetic link between us and the Neanderthal"?

Last time I read something about Neanderthals, they were pretty well stabilished within the Homo genus.

For example, at http://www.jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleo/neanderthal.html you can read this:
the authors estimate the human and Neanderthal divergence at 550,000-690,000 years ago. The age of the common human ancestor, using the same procedure, is about 120,000-150,000 years ago.
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Quite a good genetic link, don't you think?

As far as I know, genetic studies have not found (yet?) signs of interbreeding with Neanderthals within our species.
At http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6146908.stm you can read:
Edward Rubin's team found no evidence for a Neanderthal contribution to the modern gene pool, but Professor Paabo's analysis hints at a possible contribution in the other direction - from modern humans into Neanderthals.
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Looks like a genetic link to me. No signs of alien intervention here.
 
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My bad, what I meant, was that 'we' didn't come from Neanderthals...

Neanderthals did NOT beget Homo Sapien Sapien.

'Our' ancestor was even less 'evolved' that the Neanderthal.

In the early days of evolution and humanoid fossiles, it was 'believed' that there was a clear step by step record of Man's climb up the evolutionary ladder, and that Neanderthal was one of those rungs.

We now know this is not the case...

I have made the a case in a thread some years ago, that present day Man made a light year jump in appearance, technology, and culture, from what we 'used' to be. Neanderthals were supposedly the mid-step in this evolution. When you take them out of the equation, our leap forward seems even more impressive.

We went from being VERY hairy, wearing no clothes, and being much more slumped over, to being mostly hairless, upright, and tayloring clothes even adorned with jewelry, not to mention the cultural advancements.

More on this later...I am out of time today.
 
The gap between Homo erectus and Homo sapiens is not as big as you think it is.

And how would a life form that is not related to any life on earth be able to breed with a Homo erectus and produce fertile offspring?
 
Astrophotographer said:
...It is fun to speculate about but the fact is there are usually reasonable explanations. Perhaps you should read Carl Sagan's "Demon Haunted World". I was never a big Sagan fan until I read that book.
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space_ed,
I know this book had been suggested to you in some of your previous threads; any chance you've picked up a copy?
 
arthwollipot said:
... since Trieste first took humans to the bottom of the deepest part of the oceans.
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Actually, I think humans went to the bottom of the ocean long before Trieste took them there. They just didn't come back up.
 
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