THE TWO WAYS - an interesting quote...

[bratok]

The first way - "IMITATION".

This way is the most easiest and sweetest... in the beginning. But the most difficult and bitter in the end. Walking this way, one does not need to work with his soul. He can be as everyone, live as all live… But in the old age - bitterness, repentance and a regret...

Old age for you now - something uncertain, unreal, not clear. As a far - far foggy island. Each of you are sure, that never will grow old.

Walking this way, it is not necessary to think, strain, it is necessary simply to follow the elementary instincts and desires.

It is a way of the sleeping. This is comprehension of the world through recurrence experience of others, through imitating predecessors.

"... There will come time when the person with the help of an object would be able to lift other object up to the stars and back, and if farther, through eighteen thousand worlds to God.

There will come time when the person with the help of an object would be able to lift himself up to the stars and back, and is farther, through eighteen thousand worlds to God, to personally appear at him.

But it only when the time will come. This time can come after thirty breaths or after thirty thousand years. But it is - when the time will come. And your life can not be enough.

On this way you can receive, extract, collect, save up knowledge and transfer it as a heritage to other people. You can leave a trace in history of mankind and the experience of movement on this road ".


The Second way - "CONDITION".

"Remember! If you do not have time to wait millennium and you want to appear personally to the Creator, during your life, to be dissolved in His great and immense light, you should go on a way of self-knowledge. Because, by learning yourself, you will learn the God.

Going on a way of self comprehension, opening secret forces in yourself, you, with effort of the spirit, would be able to lift an object and send it up to stars and back or further, through eighteen thousand worlds, to the Creator. Or you would be able to lift, with effort of the spirit, yourself up to the stars and back or further, through eighteen thousand worlds, to the Creator
.
On this way you will learn hate, passing in compassion to people.

Through compassion you will comprehend Love.
Becoming rich, you will comprehend essence of riches and poverty.
You will comprehend essence of force and powerlessness.
You will understand and will comprehend validity.
You will learn a pain of loneliness, remaining among set of people.
You will comprehend pleasure and a pain simultaneously, having opened the true recognition of the world and seeing person the way they really are".

The Truth is not transferred, the truth is comprehended.
The Way of Imitation. While receiving easy knowledge, the Personality disappears on this way, it dissolved in a crowd. To comprehend truth on this way, is indefinitely difficult.

The Way of Condition is a way of the perfect person. Everyone going this way can comprehend the truth. The lack of this way, is that the force, abilities, love, power and all opportunities achieved on a way to truth, is impossible to transfer anothers. During transfer, being reflects in consciousness of other person and the truth perishes.

The task of going on this way - to find, distinguish, open a perfect person and to pass on the baton.

 

[Yahzi]

Mmmmm... more word salad. This forum is becoming positively loaded with culinary delights.

 

[Iconoclast]

Other Deep Thoughts

- A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

- He who hesitates is lost.

- Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

- People in glass houses get quite hot.


hmmmm, Deep.

 

[wayrad]

"There's glory for you!"
"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument,' " Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is, " said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty. "which is to be master—that's all."

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

 

[bratok]

Ok, let's try putting this another way -

Do you believe that there is something more, something bigger then just what we know about life... being born, raised, go to school, to collage, finding a job, getting married, raising children, retairing, haveing grandchildren and dieing?

Didn't you ever feel that there should be something more than just that?


Thanx

 

[Ed]

Ok, let's try putting this another way -

Do you believe that there is something more, something bigger then just what we know about life... being born, raised, go to school, to collage, finding a job, getting married, raising children, retairing, haveing grandchildren and dieing?

Didn't you ever feel that there should be something more than just that?


Thanx

Sure. The interesting things that life brings day by day. That's not enough? What are you, greedy?

 

[Pyrrho]

Ok, let's try putting this another way -

Do you believe that there is something more, something bigger then just what we know about life... being born, raised, go to school, to collage, finding a job, getting married, raising children, retairing, haveing grandchildren and dieing?

Didn't you ever feel that there should be something more than just that?

Thanx

When in the course of life the idea dawns upon us that we are mortal after all, we then begin to attempt to rationalize the limitations of existence. Thus, the search for meaning commences. Of all living things, only humans seek meaning for existence. Possibly this is because of our restive nature; possibly it is because we are in fact greedy and can never be satisfied with what we have. We know we are alive; we want to stay alive and young forever. This is impossible, yet we deny that it is impossible. Unfortunately, our existence is finite. We will all die, eventually. Life is its own purpose. There is no reason for there to be anything more than that.

 

[Yahweh]

Do you believe that there is something more, something bigger then just what we know about life... being born, raised, go to school, to collage, finding a job, getting married, raising children, retairing, haveing grandchildren and dieing?

I'll put this Socratically:
As long as there are things left to learn (and its impossible to know everything), we can always say there is something bigger than us. Its called Knowledge.

Didn't you ever feel that there should be something more than just that?

I'll put this Pragmatically (Ooh! I made a rhyme ):
Wishing good things to happen accomplishes absolutely nothing, its much more constructive to actively make your life into "something more"...

 

[bratok]

>>Possibly this is because of our restive nature; possibly it is because we are in fact greedy and can never be satisfied with what we have. We know we are alive; we want to stay alive and young forever. This is impossible, yet we deny that it is impossible.

I mean something bigger then just "we are alive and want to stay that way"... something like "why did we (people) appear? Was it just and "accident" or we do have some heigher meaning? What are we doing here, on earth? Why am I born here, in this time, in this city, from this parents? Why am I in a male or female body? What happens after death? etc., etc."

Back to "the Two Ways". Our body is the most incredible and powerful machine we know and it will take long, very long time before we could produce anything comparable to it. Only we, because of our laziness, are useing 3-5% of its potential, at best.

For example, people need to lift heavy stones. They can either train their muscles for a long time and be able to lift them by hand ( the second way )... but this knowlege / power won't be transferable, as everybody would have to train himself to be able to do this.

Or the first way - ONE bright person invents a machine that is capable of lifting stones. He builds lots of this machines, gives then out to people and now they can lift stones with the help of a machine.

Ok, hope at least something of the above is understandable .

The idea is that our body is capable of much, much more then todays "machines" can do. Yet one limits himself with the already-created "machines", instead of spending some time and effort to have his body complete the same, or a much bigger, task. I'm not saying that useing inventions of others is anything bad - like why should one walk by foot, if he can use a car?

But yet if someone has a headache, I don't think that it would be wise to take a pill that makes him not feel the pain... instead of meditating and asking his body of what is it trying to tell him with this headache, which of his action did cause it and what he should do or stop doing to remove the headache...


Thanx!

 

[Pyrrho]

>>Possibly this is because of our restive nature; possibly it is because we are in fact greedy and can never be satisfied with what we have. We know we are alive; we want to stay alive and young forever. This is impossible, yet we deny that it is impossible.

I mean something bigger then just "we are alive and want to stay that way"... something like "why did we (people) appear? Was it just and "accident" or we do have some heigher meaning? What are we doing here, on earth? Why am I born here, in this time, in this city, from this parents? Why am I in a male or female body? What happens after death? etc., etc."

Ah. Well. I have no idea.

Back to "the Two Ways". Our body is the most incredible and powerful machine we know and it will take long, very long time before we could produce anything comparable to it. Only we, because of our laziness, are useing 3-5% of its potential, at best.

Oh, I dunno. I find a 757 jet aircraft much more impressive than the human body.

For example, people need to lift heavy stones. They can either train their muscles for a long time and be able to lift them by hand ( the second way )... but this knowlege / power won't be transferable, as everybody would have to train himself to be able to do this.

Or the first way - ONE bright person invents a machine that is capable of lifting stones. He builds lots of this machines, gives then out to people and now they can lift stones with the help of a machine.

People have developed tools and improved their use over many many years. We're pretty smart that way.

Ok, hope at least something of the above is understandable .

The idea is that our body is capable of much, much more then todays "machines" can do. Yet one limits himself with the already-created "machines", instead of spending some time and effort to have his body complete the same, or a much bigger, task. I'm not saying that useing inventions of others is anything bad - like why should one walk by foot, if he can use a car?

But yet if someone has a headache, I don't think that it would be wise to take a pill that makes him not feel the pain... instead of meditating and asking his body of what is it trying to tell him with this headache, which of his action did cause it and what he should do or stop doing to remove the headache...

Thanx!

Yeah, well...whatever.

 

[bratok]

>>Oh, I dunno. I find a 757 jet aircraft much more impressive than the human body.

Just because it can fly, you consider it more impressive than a human body? Can it... i donno... draw, create, think, at least reproduce? Also how can we know that the ~95-97% of the possibileties we don't use, don't involve flying? Maybe not at supersonic speed, but at least levitating .


Thanx

 

[epepke]

Ok, let's try putting this another way -

Do you believe that there is something more, something bigger then just what we know about life... being born, raised, go to school, to collage, finding a job, getting married, raising children, retairing, haveing grandchildren and dieing?

Didn't you ever feel that there should be something more than just that?

Bratok,

We live on a planet orbiting a single star in a galaxy of perhaps a hundred billion stars. Any place you point a telescope, you can see thousands of galaxies. If you look further, you can see the origin of the universe itself. We evolved over billions of years and share quite literal kinship with all life on this planet. The very atoms that make us up were borne in the cores of stars and in gargantuan supernova explosions. There are stars with cores of diamond. There are stars with companions that spin around them many times per second. There are stars that are so dense that they cannot in any meaningful sense be said to be part of the universe any more. The dirt underneath my fingernail is made up of amplitudes that span the entire universe in space and time. And yet the atoms even in my brain are not the same from day to day, but they do the same dance and remember the same things.

All of this is accessible through science.

And you would replace it with what? Some narcissistic notion of the potential of the human body and the Perfect Human? Or perhaps some grandiosely narcissistic notion of a personal God who, incidentally, has a lot of followers who consider science evil and are hell-bent on stopping it?

What you have to offer is so miniscule and vapid compared to what can easily be had without any mysticism at all, it is startling that you have the gall to ask the question.

 

[espritch]

Is there a meaning to life? Is there some greater purpose to our existence? Maybe yes, maybe no. If there is, it has never seen fit to reveal itself to me, so I don't waste a lot of time worrying about it. Admitting that you don't know is not a bad thing. It can in fact be quite liberating. And it is certainly far preferable, in my view, than claiming to know something you do not (and probably can not) know.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I must go sacrifice a Christian baby to the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

 

[bratok]

All of this is accessible through science. And you would replace it with what? Some narcissistic notion of the potential of the human body and the Perfect Human?

epepke, really funny how you can put upside down everying I've said .
I'm in not saying in any way that science is "bad" or should be stopped. Of course, it should go on and on!

What I'm saying is that today most people are limiting themselfs with the inventions of science and not useing their body resources for more then 5 or so %.
Like instead of haveing the body cure itself, they'd better fully relay on doctors and pills. To remove any possible missunderstandings - I'm also not saying that doctors or medicine are any bad. Just one should not FULLY relay on them.

...if someone has a headache, I don't think that it would be wise to take a pill that makes him not feel the pain... instead of meditating and asking his body of what is it trying to tell him with this headache, which of his action did cause it and what he should do or stop doing to remove the headache...

Thanx!

 

[LFTKBS]

Back to "the Two Ways". Our body is the most incredible and powerful machine we know and it will take long, very long time before we could produce anything comparable to it. Only we, because of our laziness, are useing 3-5% of its potential, at best.

*snip*

But yet if someone has a headache, I don't think that it would be wise to take a pill that makes him not feel the pain... instead of meditating and asking his body of what is it trying to tell him with this headache, which of his action did cause it and what he should do or stop doing to remove the headache...

Three to five percent of its potential, eh? Physically or intellectually? Where did you get this knowledge? How much of your potential do you use? Can you, personally, mediate and determine the cause of any pain you might have? Are you able to block or end this pain or damage through this meditation? If so, may I come to your house and drive a nail through your hand, then watch as you meditate it away? If any animal could be fully 20 times stronger or smarter than its competitors, why are there no examples of these superbeings in nature? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

 

[bratok]

>>Where did you get this knowledge?
Books, internet, lots of places...

>>Can you, personally, mediate and determine the cause of any pain you might have?
Didn't have any pains lately , but I suppose yes. Partly by meditating, partly by communicateing with my subcounsciouse useing a pendulum, I can determine what positive effect my body is trying to produce and either reach it myself or tell my body to use another "goog" method.

Also I was able to remove a burn scar from my hand through ceratin exercises ( hot, cold feeling ). Not that it bothered me, but just for an experiment.


Thanx.

 

[LFTKBS]

>>Where did you get this knowledge?
Books, internet, lots of places...

That's not gonna cut it, hoss. Specifically, in what books or on what sites did you get this information? How did the authors determine this? You're like one of those people who parrots that ridiculous "oh, la la la, we only use 10% of our brain" folderol.

 

[bratok]

>>Specifically, in what books or on what sites did you get this information?

Ok, the book is in Russian and is called "Where Kuzka's Mother spends her winter or how to get million solutions for free". The title doesn't make any sense in English. The author is M.S. Norbekov.

Try this link for an autotranslated version.
http://www.translate.ru/url/tran_ur...on&transliterate=on&psubmit2.x=0&psubmit2.y=8

>>You're like one of those people who parrots that ridiculous "oh, la la la, we only use 10% of our brain" folderol.
Also that was said by many authors, also came with "scientific" evidence, etc.


Good Luck!

 

[Liamo]

[B>>You're like one of those people who parrots that ridiculous "oh, la la la, we only use 10% of our brain" folderol.
Also that was said by many authors, also came with "scientific" evidence, etc.[/B]

What scientific evidence would that be? It has been said by many authors, true, but they did not know what they were talking about. What would you reply to those argument (from Snopes):

What follows are two of the reasons that the Ten-Percent story is suspect. (For a much more thorough and detailed analysis of the subject, see Barry Beyerstein's chapter in the 1999 book Mind Myths: Exploring Everyday Mysteries of the Mind.)

1) Brain imaging research techniques such as PET scans (positron emission tomography) and fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) clearly show that the vast majority of the brain does not lie fallow. Indeed, although certain minor functions may use only a small part of the brain at one time, any sufficiently complex set of activities or thought patterns will indeed use many parts of the brain. Just as people don't use all of their muscle groups at one time, they also don't use all of their brain at once. For any given activity, such as eating, watching television, making love, or reading, you may use a few specific parts of your brain. Over the course of a whole day, however, just about all of the brain is used at one time or another.

2) The myth presupposes an extreme localization of functions in the brain. If the "used" or "necessary" parts of the brain were scattered all around the organ, that would imply that much of the brain is in fact necessary. But the myth implies that the "used" part of the brain is a discrete area, and the "unused" part is like an appendix or tonsil, taking up space but essentially unnecessary. But if all those parts of the brain are unused, removal or damage to the "unused" part of the brain should be minor or unnoticed. Yet people who have suffered head trauma, a stroke, or other brain injury are frequently severely impaired. Have you ever heard a doctor say, ". . . But luckily when that bullet entered his skull, it only damaged the 90 percent of his brain he didn't use"? Of course not.

Liam

 

[bratok]

I wasn't talking only about the brain, but the resources of the whole body. For example, how long do you think an average person could be holding on to a brick only with his index and middle finger? Few minutes max?

There was a video tape of one woman how was holding her child with one hand and holding to a brick outside a window of the firth floor for 4 hours, untill firefighters got her down. I.e. in stress her body had opened some resoursec that people do not use in everyday life.


Thanx