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Cont: The Trump Presidency VI

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BobTheCoward said:
I don't know if it is a right or wrong. What is the "top" and what is "dismantling" seems entirely in the eye of the beholder.
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Objective facts are not subjective. Eye of the beholder has nothing to do with reality.
 
acbytesla said:
Objective facts are not subjective. Eye of the beholder has nothing to do with reality.
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There is not an objective fact that delineates the top of an agency from it's body. There isn't an objective fact that defines the essential pieces of an agency such that dismantling the piece constitutes the top or the agency as a whole.
 
CSPAN video: Senator Obama questioning John Bolton about his irrational beliefs. Obama is masterful pinning down a CTer. So diplomatic.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4630745/senator-obama-questions-john-bolton

There's a transcript for those of you who lack the time to watch it. It's just Obama-Bolton exchange. The rest of the hearing is available at the same link.
OBAMA: ... What it has to do with, whether this is an example exactly of what you said the Silberman-Robb report warns against, which is that you had a particular perspective, you had an intelligence analyst who was concerned that your perspective was not quite right, and that in that context, you were interested in shading or shaping the analysis to fit your reasonable hypotheses.

That's, I think, the reason that we're concerned, applying your test; that we don't want our intelligence to be not corroborated by hard facts. ...

... I guess I would just ask you if -- if the record indicates that you were seeking to reject hard facts because they didn't neatly fit into a speech that you are making on behalf of the United States government, is it fair to say that that would be something that this panel should be concerned about and that that might undermine your capacity to be a credible advocate for the United States in the United Nations?
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MR. BOLTON
I think failure to pay attention to reality and facts, however unpleasant they are, is an extremely undesirable characteristic. In this case, I don't remember what the alternative formulation was. It was not anything having to do with the substance of whatever it was; it was the fact I didn't think I had been dealt with squarely.

SEN. OBAMA
Fair enough. I just want to pinpoint, though -- it may be that there is a dispute on the facts, but what I want to do is establish a common principle, which is that we want our intelligence analysts to give us information that's based on their best assessment of the facts, even if it doesn't fit our hypotheses. Is that a fair principle?

[Snipped Bolton absolutely agreeing]

OBAMA: I think one of the things we will want to pursue, then, after the break is whether that is, in fact, what happened here. My understanding is you don't feel that's what happened here. I think some of the panel, based on the interviews we've seen, feel that it is what happened. But I just want to establish the principle that it would be troubling if we are discouraging analysts from giving us the best possible information.
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Bolton wants to take out Iran before they get nukes.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Amazing how readily some people in this thread have already bought into the blatant lie that the FBI is in the left's pocket. It's hard to fathom.
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Amazing how people on the left missed the entire leadership at the top has left in disgrace.
 
BobTheCoward said:
There is not an objective fact that delineates the top of an agency from it's body. There isn't an objective fact that defines the essential pieces of an agency such that dismantling the piece constitutes the top or the agency as a whole.
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The difference is the culture. Whether employees are committed to the law or their bosses. I highly recommend that you watch the movie about Mark Felt.

When the President thinks that people should be loyal to him as opposed to the nation's laws and their oath of office makes a huge difference. Comey, McCabe as well as Robert Mueller were lifelong Republicans. None of whom were willing to tell Trump that they would be lackeys is why they were fired. Politicizing these departments does significant damage to the culture and the process.
 
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acbytesla said:
The difference is the culture. Whether employees are committed to the law or theur bosses. I highly recommend that you watch the movie about Mark Felt.

When the President thinks that people should be loyal to him as opposed to the nation's laws and their oath of office makes a huge difference. Comey, McCabe as well as Robert Mueller were lifelong Republicans. None of whom were willing to tell Trump that they would be lackeys is why they were fired. Politicizing these departments does significant damage to the culture and the process.
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None of that is objective fact. It is expression of values.
 
logger said:
Amazing how people on the left missed the entire leadership at the top has left in disgrace.
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"Left in disgrace" = "Fired by a scared Putin Puppet"

Lol. 'K :thumbsup:

(I'm new here, but I've been lurking for a while, learned this from TBD)
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Amazing how readily some people in this thread have already bought into the blatant lie that the FBI is in the left's pocket. It's hard to fathom.
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Logger is beyond hope. He has and akways has had Right Wing blinders on and BTC just spouts this clueless ridiculous middle nonsense which he thinks is fair. At some time you have to open your eyes and take a stand. The difference between right and wrong is not somewhere in the center.
 
logger said:
Amazing how people on the left missed the entire leadership at the top has left in disgrace.
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Left in disgrace? Does that mean being unwilling to bury their noses in Il Douche's rectum and saying 'mmmm sir, that is so aromatic'
 
logger said:
You don’t know the reasons why they are no longer at the top?

Does President Trumps AG have an investigation going on? Read this ;)

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...led-in-fbi-and-doj-investigation/#more-147287
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The house judiciary committee has proven itself to be ridiculously and obscenely partisan. And that Sessions is willing to show his boss that he will say 'how high' when Trump says 'jump'. There is NO evidence of wrongdoing only crazy conservatives trying to go after anyone who does their job.

Comey's not at the top because he told Trump he would do his job as opposed to being Trump's lackey.
 
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acbytesla said:
The house judiciary committee has proven itself to be ridiculously and obscenely partisan.
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Let me ask again, does Trumps AG have an active prosecutor investingating what the inspector general has uncovered? Did you read the link?
 
logger said:
Let me ask again, does Trumps AG have an active prosecutor investingating what the inspector general has uncovered? Did you read the link?
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So what? You do know that Sessions was rightfully investigated after he lied to Congress right? You also know they didn't pursue charges. That's the way it is supposed to work. Doesnt mean there is something there there. Trump didn't fire Comey because of wrongdoing by Comey. No, he fired him because of the Russian investigation. He admitted this. Finding potential wrongdoing post hoc because you went looking for it doesn't mean the firings were justified. Does it?
 
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acbytesla said:
So what? You do know that Sessions was rightfully investigated after he lied to Congress right? You also know they didn't pursue charges. That's the way it is supposed to work. Doesnt mean there is something there there. Trump didn't fire Comey because of wrongdoing by Comey. No, he fired him because of the Russian investigation. He admitted this. Finding potential wrongdoing post hoc because you went looking for it doesn't mean the firings were justified. Does it?
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So what? You accuse me of having right wing blinders on?

We’ve got no evidence of Russian collusion. We’ve got just about the entire top at the FBI fired, quit or reassigned. There is a year long investigation by the Inspector General that apparently is responsible for that top leadership being removed. We’ve got calls for a 2nd special Counsel that is being ignored by the AG because he already has an outside prosecutor looking at what the Inspector General has uncovered.

Is there a grand jury empaneled?
 
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