Cont: The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 27

[Stacyhs]

Which is why: 1. The Hellmann court verdict of guilt for the charge of calunnia against Lumumba was arbitrary; 2. The ECHR will have one more reason, if it wants to list them all, to find that Amanda's conviction for calunnia was unfair under the Convention and allow her to request a retrial.

Arbitrary judgments of conviction are always considered unfair by the ECHR.

I seem to remember reading that Hellmann regretted convicting Amanda of calunnia but I can't find it now. Does anyone else remember this?

This thread continues from here. As usual the split point is arbitrary and participants are free to quote from previous iteration of this thread.

Posted By: zooterkin

 

[Numbers]

Here's the last paragraph of the 6 April 2016 article on the acquittal of Amanda Knox on the charge of calunnia against the police.

Non ci sono le prove «Le scelte investigative hanno indotto nell’imputata il convincimento di aver subìto una pianificata azione investigativa vessatoria e ingiusta. Manca la prova che i fatti non si siano svolti, in effetti, come narrato dalla ragazza e che lei fosse pienamente consapevole dell’estraneità del pm alle modalità di conduzione delle indagini. E’ verosimile che la Knox fosse convinta di essere vittima di un meccanismo ingiustamente vessatorio e prevaricatorio. Quanto alla posizione del magistrato, evidentemente ritenuto l’ispiratore gerarchico, sia pure erroneamente lo riteneva primo artefice ed ideatore del suo stato di soggezione».

Google translated with help from Collins Reverso and me:

There is no evidence: "Investigative decisions have led the accused [defendant] to the conviction of having been subjected to a planned and unjustified investigative action. There is no evidence that the facts did not take place, in fact, as described by the girl, nor that she was fully aware of the non-involvement of the prosecutor in conducting the investigations. It is likely that Knox was convinced that she was the victim of an unfair and perverse system. Regarding the position of the magistrate, apparently because of his position in the hierarchy, {she considered him the inspiration of the events, so that} she mistakenly considered him the first author and designer of her state of subjection.

 

[Vixen]

Note what the highlighted sentence in your first post said. No one noted "irritation on Meredith's side" except the British girls who only noted this months after Amanda had been arrested...when they were firmly convinced she had murdered their friend. Any criticism, however mild, made by Meredith would have interpreted in a much more negative light then.

Filomena did not note any unusual irritation between the two girls. Nor did Laura. Nor did the boys downstairs, including Silenzi. As for his complaints at the questura, these views stated were also given after Amanda's arrest when he too, assumed she was guilty of murder. This is what he said in an interview:




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-Foxy-Knoxy-killed-lover.html#ixzz4xz4JOoMU


This sounds like grandstanding for the press to me. And note his last sentence (highlighted). If he had really thought this, why no mention of it in his testimony? Why did he say just the opposite? He's either lying to the press or he lied in court.

I highly doubt the Kerchers read Knox's blog. If there's so much concern for leaving the Kerchers "in peace" then I suggest the British tabloids like the DM stop publishing Knox related stories and nasty articles like Jan Moir's where the PGP spew their venom in the comments sections. That is what the Kerchers will see, not Amanda's blog.

Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.

 

[Vixen]

In 1989, the carabinieri unofficially asked the FBI's Behavioral Science Unit to develop a profile of the Monster of Florence. This is that profile. Notice this does not, in any way, agree with Mignini's wild and unsupported theory:

Of course, this is the unit developed and led by John Douglas, the PR shill, so this profile is undoubtedly and almost certainly wrong.

John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.

 

[Bill Williams]

Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez Meredith had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.

Why the need to present Meredith's British friends as insufferable snobs? What does that have to do with AK and the ever forgotten RS being acquitted?

 

[Bill Williams]

John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.

The pro-Mignini PR campaign continues. Not only did these Americans have a "vendetta" against your hero, so did the Superior Council of the Judiciary in Italy, which censured him. So did other Italian prosecutors who tried to convict him of abuse of office.

So did the recent Florence court which threw out his defamation claims against Sollecito and Gumbel. So did Mignini himself have a self-vendetta for withdrawing his own civil suit against RS and AG.

You're quite correct, Mignini is the real victim here.

Don't forget to include Stefanoni as a victim. She has no forensic-DNA expert in the world who will vouch for her work.

BTW - whatever happened to Peter Quennell's promise that Mignini throwing in the towel over his bogus defamation calims against RS and AG, such promise that that failure on Mignini's part was really a victory? Where's the promised apology from AG and RS?

 

[acbytesla]

John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.

Oh nonsense. Mignini is a blathering small time idiot who has no business being in that job. Douglas is a world renowned professional detective. Mignini comes up with moronic theories and tries to make the evidence post facto fit his theories. In contrast, Douglas follows the evidence where it takes the case.

When are you going to apply an intellectual approach to the evidence and the case? Not an ounce of trouble from Amanda or Raffaele outside of one noisy party in their entire lives and your still peddling your psychopathic nonsense that these two upstanding citizens of an acquaintance of 8 days who could barely communicate with each other conspired with a proven burglar to kill her roommate.

This is incredibly embarrassing and tiresome. I'm curious, will you ever have an epiphany and come to terms with the stupidity of your position? If Amanda and Raffaele continue to live upstanding lives will you ever admit your mistake? Or are you like Trump and will continue to insist you are right despite the obvious?

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.

Man, what a slut. No wonder you're bummed out she's not in prison for a murder she didn't commit. Hey at least the floozy got 4 years, right?

 

[Stacyhs]

Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.

No one has ever claimed that Meredith thought of Amanda as her closest friend in Italy so why the need to mention that? Meredith chose to have other Brits, with whom she had a pre-existing relationship, as her major social group while Amanda chose to immerse herself in Italian as much as possible. Amanda came to Perugia alone, and not with a "ready made contingent of friends". She deliberately did not seek out other English speaker to hang around with except for Meredith with who she lived. Frankly, it seems to me the "British birds" didn't like an American invading their little clique. Kudos to Meredith for being more open-minded.

So what if Amanda's texts and calls were primarily to guys? Perhaps she just enjoys the company of guys over catty girls. In fact, my daughter's best friend is a guy she met her first day of college. But Amanda's "best friend" is Madison Paxton. You know, the girl who actually moved to Italy just to be there to support Amanda during the trials? Now, that's a real friend.

 

[Stacyhs]

John Douglas has a vendetta against Mignini, together with his chum, Preston, so of course he'll contradict him, out of sheer vindictiveness.

You've said some outrageous things, but this one takes top prize for its sheer absurdity. What vendetta does John Douglas have against Mignini? What evidence do you have that Douglas and Preston are "chums"?
But the icing on the absurdity cake is the fact that this profile was done in 1989, 18 years before Kercher was murdered and at least 11 years before Preston had even heard of Mignini!
Stop just making things up.

 

[acbytesla]

Amanda may have seen Mez as her 'closest friend'. However, the feeling was not mutual as Mez had a ready made contingent of friends from Leeds Uni.

Being the kind girl she was, she tried to include Amanda in her social crowd.

Unfortunately, the Brits didn't take kindly to Amanda's propensity to show off.

If you look at Amanda's phone records, her texts and calls were almost exclusively to guys.

Man, what a slut. No wonder you're bummed out she's not in prison for a murder she didn't commit. Hey at least the floozy got 4 years, right?

No one has ever claimed that Meredith thought of Amanda as her closest friend in Italy so why the need to mention that? Meredith chose to have other Brits, with whom she had a pre-existing relationship, as her major social group while Amanda chose to immerse herself in Italian as much as possible. Amanda came to Perugia alone, and not with a "ready made contingent of friends". She deliberately did not seek out other English speaker to hang around with except for Meredith with who she lived. Frankly, it seems to me the "British birds" didn't like an American invading their little clique. Kudos to Meredith for being more open-minded.

So what if Amanda's texts and calls were primarily to guys? Perhaps she just enjoys the company of guys over catty girls. In fact, my daughter's best friend is a guy she met her first day of college. But Amanda's "best friend" is Madison Paxton. You know, the girl who actually moved to Italy just to be there to support Amanda during the trials? Now, that's a real friend.

Thanks Stacyhs and NotEvenWrong.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 12

But for argument sake. Let's say that Vixen is right. Amanda likes attention from men. So?

It still doesn't make her a murderer any more than if she was a nun. There is NO correlation between sex and violence. I was a very promiscuous young man and I never committed violence against anyone. I find it amusing how Vixen has ignored Meredith's sexual exploration and demonized Amanda's.

The problem isn't Amanda's, it is Vixen's and the destructive lifestyle of religion. Sex is dirty, and filthy. Sex is for procreation only.

 

[Vixen]

No one has ever claimed that Meredith thought of Amanda as her closest friend in Italy so why the need to mention that? Meredith chose to have other Brits, with whom she had a pre-existing relationship, as her major social group while Amanda chose to immerse herself in Italian as much as possible. Amanda came to Perugia alone, and not with a "ready made contingent of friends". She deliberately did not seek out other English speaker to hang around with except for Meredith with who she lived. Frankly, it seems to me the "British birds" didn't like an American invading their little clique. Kudos to Meredith for being more open-minded.

So what if Amanda's texts and calls were primarily to guys? Perhaps she just enjoys the company of guys over catty girls. In fact, my daughter's best friend is a guy she met her first day of college. But Amanda's "best friend" is Madison Paxton. You know, the girl who actually moved to Italy just to be there to support Amanda during the trials? Now, that's a real friend.

Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?

Young Brits are not prejudiced against Americans. There are many nationalities in UK unis. The girls didn't click with Amanda because of her unpleasant habit of disrupting conversation by sudden loud singing when the attention was not on her.

Truth is, Mez was in Perugia as an ERASMUS student on a proper university degree course. Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll.

 

[Vixen]

You've said some outrageous things, but this one takes top prize for its sheer absurdity. What vendetta does John Douglas have against Mignini? What evidence do you have that Douglas and Preston are "chums"?
But the icing on the absurdity cake is the fact that this profile was done in 1989, 18 years before Kercher was murdered and at least 11 years before Preston had even heard of Mignini!
Stop just making things up.

We see this in John Douglas' own account. He was a pioneering FBI profiler.

Then he retired to write books.

He became a 'gun for hire' - rther like Gill - as there is big money in adding your 'influence' as a defence voice for persons charged with murder.

Thus we see Douglas coming out in support of heinous killers such as Avery, the West Memphis Three and the Kercher killers.

No evidence, just John Douglas' say-so.

When we further note his best chum is the bitter Doug Preston, it all beomes clear his support for Knox is merely based on a PR campaign against Mignini, because a two-bit pulp fiction writer - Preston - got booted out of Italy for trying to obstruct justice in the MOF case.

 

[Vixen]

Thanks Stacyhs and NotEvenWrong. This is Vixen again subtly trying to suggest that Amanda is a slut. This tells you where Vixen's sick mind is. She's more interested in slut shaming than anything else.

But for argument sake. Let's say that Vixen is right. Amanda likes attention from men. So?

It still doesn't make her a murderer any more than if she was a nun. There is NO correlation between sex and violence. I was a very promiscuous young man and I never committed violence against anyone. I find it amusing how Vixen has ignored Meredith's sexual exploration and demonized Amanda's.

The problem isn't Amanda's, it is Vixen's and the destructive lifestyle of religion. Sex is dirty, and filthy. Sex is for procreation only.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 9 and rule 12

Homo Sapiens are designed to be rampantly sexually active in youth. It's to do with the release of hormones. Its function is the continuation of the species.

There is nothing special in Amanda screwing around, although she would like us to think she is somehow 'hot'.

Most people screw around a lot in their youth.

...Then they get married and the sex stops...

Seriously though, there is nothing more dear and precious than the family [

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 12

 

[Planigale]

Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?

https://twitter.com/themadpax?lang=en&lang=en

Check out who she follows!

 

[Bill Williams]

There is nothing special in Amanda screwing around, although she would like us to think she is somehow 'hot'.

Let the slut-shaming begin. It's what the pro-Mignini PR campaign does to divert from the disasters befalling their hero.

When Mignini is censured, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When the defamation charges against RS and AG are thrown out, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When Mignini himself withdraws his civil suit against RS and AG, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When promising that those last two items were really a victory for Mignini and predicting an apology to Mignini from RS and AG - such fantasy which never comes, slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

When their favourite author NvdL is accused of plagiarism by ALL sides to this case, try to divert from that by slut-shaming the wrongfully convicted.

Divert, divert, divert. When Mignini is embarrassed make sure at all costs to bury it, and slut-shame the wrongfully convicted.

 

[acbytesla]

Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?
Young Brits are not prejudiced against Americans. There are many nationalities in UK unis. The girls didn't click with Amanda because of her unpleasant habit of disrupting conversation by sudden loud singing when the attention was not on her.

Truth is, Mez was in Perugia as an ERASMUS student on a proper university degree course. Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll.

What do you mean? Would you really expect them to be 'permanent roommates'? People move on and develop other relationships.

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited for rule 12

Fact One: The British girls were attending a different school than Amanda so they didn't really know Amanda.
Fact Two: The Foreigners School that Amanda attended was part of the accredited Travel Abroad program for the University of Washington.
Fact Three: Meredith was banging the Italian boy who lived downstairs so she wasn't any more innocent than Amanda.
Fact Four: Everyone who lived in that cottage used drugs.
Fact Five: Amanda was so responsible she got a job.

Why is it you persist with attempting to paint Meredith as perfect and Amanda as some irresponsible drug slut when their behaviors were almost identical?

 

[acbytesla]

Edited by Agatha: 

Removed previously moderated content

Homo Sapiens are designed to be rampantly sexually active in youth. It's to do with the release of hormones. Its function is the continuation of the species.

There is nothing special in Amanda screwing around, although she would like us to think she is somehow 'hot'.

Most people screw around a lot in their youth.

...Then they get married and the sex stops...

Seriously though, there is nothing more dear and precious than the family

Edited by Agatha: 

Removed previously moderated content

WOW! WOW! What total unadulterated nonsense! Crazy lunacy! If most people screw around in their youth why is it you continue to portray Amanda as a globe trotting slut and Meredith as the studious virgin?

As for me, the atheist. I'd like to see mankind move on from bronze age religions and silly false superstitions, not family. I want people to trust their critical thinking skills. Trust in logic and the scientific method not the ideas of people who had NO IDEA what the scientific method is.

BTW, how do you think you create a family? It's called sex. And while I know some people that got married and stopped having sex, I know plenty of married couples who have very healthy sex lives 30 years after tying the knot. My parents for one.

 

[snoop_doxie]

Yeah, and where is Madison Paxton now?

Young Brits are not prejudiced against Americans. There are many nationalities in UK unis. The girls didn't click with Amanda because of her unpleasant habit of disrupting conversation by sudden loud singing when the attention was not on her.

Truth is, Mez was in Perugia as an ERASMUS student on a proper university degree course. Amanda was on a three-month bumming around Europe tour for sex and drugs and rock and roll.

You just made that up. Completely.

Either provide evidence of this bollocks or just stop it.

Would be more interesting for you to address the John Douglas stuff you tried to peddle though.

Thanks.

 

[acbytesla]

You just made that up. Completely. Either provide evidence of this bollocks or just stop it.

Would be more interesting for you to address the John Douglas stuff you tried to peddle though.

Thanks.

I think you're giving Vixen too much credit. While it is certainly a fabrication, Vixen didn't make this up. This is exactly the dialog you hear in the TJMK and PMF echo chamber for the last decade.