The times they are a changing

[Undesired Walrus]

Another piece of junk on the moon.

Quite an achievement for a country which has so many of its citizens living in poverty and suffering from treatable diseases.

I understand your point, and the simple answer to "Isn't it more important we spend the money on the people down here on Earth who need it?" is "Yes".

But the question I always respond with is "Why pick on space travel?". There are almost an infinite amount of things you can pick on first, for example outrageously overpaid sports stars.

It is worth remembering that it cost every American 1 cent for every new world Voyager 2 took a photograph of. The revamped Hubble Telescope, provided with innovative imagining, produced technology that has saved millions of women's lives by early detections of breast cancer.

 

[The Atheist]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

I certainly wouldn't object to knowing that, when hitchhiking around the galaxy, I can always count on getting a good vindaloo with garlic naan.

That's all fine, but it'd be nice to able to get pizza every now and again.

 

[I Ratant]

Well said.

It's one thing which disgusts me with cricket in India - on one side of the street you see women being escorted to cricket matches while decked with enough gold to end the credit crisis, and on the other, bundles of sticks begging.

Originally Posted by I Ratant View Post
The beggar class in India is generations old, with children purposely mutilated early to appear 'worthy" of assistance as they age.

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Ah, well that makes it ok, then.

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We are currently engaged in a pair of cultural alteration activities in that area of the world.
Neither of them is a rousing sucess, and neither of them will be.
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Their culture and mores are not ours.

 

[lomiller]

Another piece of junk on the moon.

Quite an achievement for a country which has so many of its citizens living in poverty and suffering from treatable diseases.

To achieve one must first dream.

You can’t lift people from poverty, but you can open the door and inspire them to pass through it. I don’t know if India is opening enough doors but that would be meaningless without the inspiration to achieve.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Number 2? I thought Russia had a many unmanned probes to the moon (without looking it up)?

My brain lapsed thinking only of manned landings.

So, going back to changing times, this still represents a new era as countries not previously known for anything other than Earth orbiting satellites make progress in space exploration.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

This commentary has a well worthwhile discussion of the poverty vs progress in the space race including a reminder that the US went to the Moon to show up the Russians and the Chinese sent lunar probes for similar reasons.

Will Bizarre Things Happen When India Reaches the Moon? - by Rana Sinha, Nov 4, 2008

When India, and not an affluent ‘developed’ nation, sends lunar probes, this seems to aggravate some people. They argue that India should remove poverty and feed everyone rather than spend money on space exploration.

Others see this view as patronizing and argue that India has the same rights as all countries to pursue scientific research, which will benefit even the poorest through application of technological advances. They further claim that the US Apollo programme spurred great innovative leaps in avionics, telecommunications and computer technology, which have all contributed towards improving society and raising living standards.

The article raises several interesting points.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

And this article notes the pride felt in India over the achievement.

India rejoices over moon probe landing

Politicians across the spectrum buried their differences to hail the milestone in India's space history in which the nation joins Russia, the US, Japan and the European Space Agency in successfully landing moon probes.

"Today is a historic day for India," said Sonia Gandhi, head of the ruling Congress party. Opposition Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party leader Lal Krishna Advani called it an event "to be recorded in golden letters".

Former Indian president and rocket scientist Abdul Kalam said the landing of the probe -- which coincided with the anniversary of the birth of India's first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru -- "will kindle a dream in children".

"In 15 years I want to see an Indian on the moon," said Kalam, who conceived of the so-called moon impact probe, or MIP, and is popularly known in India as "missile man".

The media was similarly ebullient....

I think those of us from first world nations don't always understand what this sort of thing means to third world nations. National pride is an odd duck.

 

[CFLarsen]

It doesn't matter if a nation is first, second or third world. The US Moon missions were not just scientific missions, the manned moon missions in particular were also a matter of publicity. The success of the Russian space missions meant that the Americans were left behind - something they don't like.

The moon missions certainly gave the Americans a boost in national pride that will last always.

 

[autumn1971]

Unless you can point to an actual plan to alleiviate poverty by the Indian government that was denied resources due to the Indian space program, I find it very difficult to believe that the full access to the funds of the space program would ever have been used to help the poor. Is this an idictment of India's domestic policy? Yes, yes it is. India is too developed a country to continue to be granted a free pass as a "third-world" nation, unable to help its poor.
However, one of the worst ways to attempt to change traditions is to embargo the knowledge that, historically, seems to lead a country out of such traditions.
Let them continue to advance their knowledge to the point where they are forced to accept that they must educate even their "undesirables" in order to keep it up.

Yes, it's slow, but it seems to beat the "maybe we should go to war, just in case" alternative.

 

[Corsair 115]

The success of the Russian space missions meant that the Americans were left behind - something they don't like.

The U.S. wasn't that behind in terms of manned flight. Alan Shepard would have been the first man in space had his flight launched in March of 1961 as scheduled. Concerns over the booster postponed his flight until May, and in the interim Gagarin became the first. But it could have easily been the U.S. to be the first, and that certainly would have changed the complexion of the space race.

 

[CFLarsen]

Would have, could have, should have. The stuff that dreams - and wishful thinking - are made of.

 

[WaterBreather]

Japan also landed on the moon, and China too, according to my local newspaper.
At least they crashed a little rocket into it, not sure if that counts.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Repeating stunts that were performed more than 40 years ago is not "innovation." However, let us suppose that India does something useful, such as orbiting a telescope that complements, or exceeds, the capability of Hubble. In your economic model- how, specifically, does that help the beggars? Will they have an increased number of upscale locales in which to beg?

Some suggestions:

But the country has been keen to display its scientific prowess and claim a bigger slice of the global satellite business.

Not only has India "put our national flag on the lunar surface, we have also emerged as a low-cost travel agency to space," ISRO chief Madhavan Nair said, referring to the space mission's total 80-million-dollar price tag which is less than half spent on similar expeditions by other countries.

ISRO says its moon mission would help it achieve international "brand recognition" for India as a serious player in space.

...

India began its space programme in 1963, developing its own satellites and launch vehicles to cut dependence on overseas agencies. It first staked its claim for a share of the global commercial launch market by sending an Italian satellite into orbit in 2007. In January, it launched an Israeli spy satellite.​

So, it sems that there is some economic justification for this as an advertisement; $80 million is about eight cents per Indian, and one presumes that the bulk of taxation does not fall on beggars; the Indians all seem jolly happy about it; and if the price tag is really less than half the price of comparable missions, some degree of innovation may indeed have been involved.

I say go India.

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