The supernatural

[Pixel42]

Hello
This was exactly a typo. Modified: The University of Birmingham, England - Message 2932

OK, after a bit of googling I think I've tracked down what you're referring to. It appears that a fragment of the Qu'ran was found in 2015 which is one of the earliest ever recorded, and it is currently kept at the University of Birmingham. The university has a FAQ about it here:

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/facili...mingana-collection/birmingham-quran/faqs.aspx

What exactly do you think this proves, heydarian? No-one here has ever disputed that the Qu'ran exists, and that it dates to the time of Mohammad.

What we are disputing is your claim that it is a Holy Book, the actual words of God himself, no less. The existence of this fragment does not support that claim in any way, shape or form.

 

[Pixel42]

No. Dear Pixel; My logic is different from yours. Please understand this difference. The distance between us and you is the difference of logic with each other. We understand your logic. Please understand our logic too.
Thank you

No, there aren't different types of logic. An argument or belief is either logical, or it isn't. Nothing you have claimed here is logical.

 

[heydarian saeed]

It seems he googled NecronomiCon, rather than Necronomicon.

Hello
Thanks a lot for the reminder instead. And sorry for the mockers in this group.
I read the summary of Necronomicon. It's all superstition. It is better not to spend your precious time reading this book. The author of this book is known to have suffered from severe mental illness and thirst. And apparently did not have access to a doctor and medicine and treatment. It is in no way comparable to the Quran. I suggest you if you want to compare these two books, you should read both books in full. Of course, I do not guarantee that reading Necronomicon will not endanger your health. Be very careful. I have seen examples of these books even in our own country. Unfortunately.
Thank you again

 

[catsmate]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafiz_(Quran)

Your link is missing the closing parentheseis.
Hafiz.

 

[heydarian saeed]

No, there aren't different types of logic. An argument or belief is either logical, or it isn't. Nothing you have claimed here is logical.

See dear pixels
The logic of the people of the Eastern countries is different from that of the West. The logic of Islam is different from that of the infidels. And the logic of many groups and schools is different. And this is normal. Not all human beings think alike. And their perceptions are different. Please be flexible. Thank you

 

[catsmate]

God is not presumed. God exists. He does not need proof.

Ah a universal excuse for the lack of evidence of your particular god.
Pathetic really.

Because God has been proven to me. It is quite clear. There is no ambiguity in the existence of God.

So I'm sure you can provide convincing evidence that your god exists.....


<drivel snippage>

 

[heydarian saeed]

OK, after a bit of googling I think I've tracked down what you're referring to. It appears that a fragment of the Qu'ran was found in 2015 which is one of the earliest ever recorded, and it is currently kept at the University of Birmingham. The university has a FAQ about it here:

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/facili...mingana-collection/birmingham-quran/faqs.aspx

What exactly do you think this proves, heydarian? No-one here has ever disputed that the Qu'ran exists, and that it dates to the time of Mohammad.

What we are disputing is your claim that it is a Holy Book, the actual words of God himself, no less. The existence of this fragment does not support that claim in any way, shape or form.

See what he says in these two pieces of the Qur'an that are kept at the University of Birmingham? What does this text contain? Are you ready to criticize the contents of these two pieces of the Quran? Let's see what he says?
Thanks

 

[catsmate]

Miskatonic University in Arkham Massachusetts said the exact same thing about the Necronomicon.

True, Dr. Shrewsbury did some excellent work in his commentaries, though the principal volume remained unpublished during his lifetime, and on the R'lyeh Text

 

[heydarian saeed]

Ah a universal excuse for the lack of evidence of your particular god.
Pathetic really.


So I'm sure you can provide convincing evidence that your god exists.....


<drivel snippage>

Hello
Exactly the whole universe is an eyewitness to the existence of God. I have explained in detail in the philosophical discussions in my previous messages. If you want to read my previous messages. In short: the universe is a disability and must have an ultimate cause as necessary. This ultimate cause can not be of the universe and matter. Because the cause chain is repeated again. And is rejected. Therefore, it should not be the ultimate cause of the material world. Therefore, it is an existence that is not the ultimate cause and matter. We call this ultimate cause God. You can give it any name you like. There is no obstacle.
Thanks

 

[Pixel42]

See dear pixels
The logic of the people of the Eastern countries is different from that of the West. The logic of Islam is different from that of the infidels. And the logic of many groups and schools is different. And this is normal. Not all human beings think alike. And their perceptions are different. Please be flexible. Thank you

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/logic

Reasoning is either valid or it isn't. Your reasoning is invalid, in ways which have already been pointed out to you at length.

 

[Pixel42]

See what he says in these two pieces of the Qur'an that are kept at the University of Birmingham? What does this text contain?

According to the FAQ:

The Birmingham Qur’an manuscript is a two-leaf (one bifolio), four-page manuscript made of parchment, written in ink, containing parts of surahs 18, 19 and 20 of the Qur’an.

I read the Qu'ran years ago, and was unimpressed. I looked up those particular surah:

https://quran.com/18/19-20

And so We awakened them so that they might question one another. One of them exclaimed, “How long have you remained ˹asleep˺?” Some replied, “Perhaps a day, or part of a day.” They said ˹to one another˺, “Your Lord knows best how long you have remained. So send one of you with these silver coins of yours to the city, and let him find which food is the purest, and then bring you provisions from it. Let him be ˹exceptionally˺ cautious, and do not let him give you away.

For, indeed, if they find out about you, they will stone you ˹to death˺, or force you back into their faith, and then you will never succeed.”

Still unimpressed.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

LOL!

Why thank you.

See what he says in these two pieces of the Qur'an that are kept at the University of Birmingham? What does this text contain? Are you ready to criticize the contents of these two pieces of the Quran? Let's see what he says?
Thanks

It is just the same poorly written gibberish as the rest of it. The Quran isn't special Heydarian, and you just repeatedly insisting it is isn't going to convince anyone. You've failed to support your arguments. You lose.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

See dear pixels
The logic of the people of the Eastern countries is different from that of the West. The logic of Islam is different from that of the infidels. And the logic of many groups and schools is different. And this is normal. Not all human beings think alike. And their perceptions are different. Please be flexible. Thank you

Quite apart from this being utter horse-poo, heydarian has now fallen into his own heffalump trap.
Having tried to prove the amazingness of the Qur'an by means of science, and then having to admit he'd done no such thing, heydarian then tried to prove how his silly book was actually super-special by logic.
This latest, ludicrous claim scotches any attempt to prove the truthfulness of Islam by logic, because, according to heydarian, his logic cannot be applied to anything outside Islam.
So, can't prove it true by research or experiment.
Can't prove it true by logic.
I'm not sure what's left now. Shouting at pigeons? Suicide bombings?
heydarian, you are truly the worst ambassador of Islam I have ever encountered. You totally suck at this. I suggest you just give up now, because I'm sure you've done a much better job of putting people off Islam than you have of converting them.
Just to check: any lurkers here more inclined to convert in the light of heydarian's preaching? It would be interesting to know.
Also, heydarian: have you actually converted any infidels yourself? It would be interesting to get their input too, if this has actually ever happened. (Yes, I very much doubt it has, but the Yak, as ever, errs on the side of kindness.)

 

[Mojo]

According to the FAQ:



I read the Qu'ran years ago, and was unimpressed. I looked up those particular surah:

https://quran.com/18/19-20



Still unimpressed.

1. Collect surahs
2. ?
3. Prophet!

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Hello
Exactly the whole universe is an eyewitness to the existence of God. I have explained in detail in the philosophical discussions in my previous messages. If you want to read my previous messages. In short: the universe is a disability and must have an ultimate cause as necessary. This ultimate cause can not be of the universe and matter. Because the cause chain is repeated again. And is rejected. Therefore, it should not be the ultimate cause of the material world. Therefore, it is an existence that is not the ultimate cause and matter. We call this ultimate cause God. You can give it any name you like. There is no obstacle.
Thanks

When you find the end of a Mobius strip let me know and then explain why the Universe cannot be a 4-D analog without a beginning or end. Vide the principle of parsimony and all that.

 

[IanS]

Hello
Exactly the whole universe is an eyewitness to the existence of God. I have explained in detail in the philosophical discussions in my previous messages. If you want to read my previous messages. In short: the universe is a disability and must have an ultimate cause as necessary. This ultimate cause can not be of the universe and matter. Because the cause chain is repeated again. And is rejected. Therefore, it should not be the ultimate cause of the material world. Therefore, it is an existence that is not the ultimate cause and matter. We call this ultimate cause God. You can give it any name you like. There is no obstacle.
Thanks

I already explained to you how our universe probably came into existence via the Big Bang. And you simply ignored the explanation! ... you had no answer to it and no understanding of it at all!

And what I explained follows almost all of the published research papers on this subject over the last 30 years or so.

There is no such thing as truly "Nothing" - do you understand why that is?

Also I asked you what are your science research qualifications? Because you were claiming that you know the science of this better than I do … so, try not to ignore it this time - what are your qualifications for this?

 

[Mojo]

Hello
Exactly the whole universe is an eyewitness to the existence of God. I have explained in detail in the philosophical discussions in my previous messages. If you want to read my previous messages. In short: the universe is a disability and must have an ultimate cause as necessary. This ultimate cause can not be of the universe and matter. Because the cause chain is repeated again. And is rejected. Therefore, it should not be the ultimate cause of the material world. Therefore, it is an existence that is not the ultimate cause and matter. We call this ultimate cause God. You can give it any name you like. There is no obstacle.
Thanks

Can you explain what you mean by the word “disability” in that post?

 

[heydarian saeed]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/logic

Reasoning is either valid or it isn't. Your reasoning is invalid, in ways which have already been pointed out to you at length.

Hello
Our reasoning is logical and philosophical according to the realistic schools. And it's absolutely right. The only objection you have made to us is: to show God in the laboratory and with material evidence. This is your thinking to prove God wrong. Because God is not material. Rather, it is the creator and creator of matter. And I told you in detail according to the hierarchy of reasons. Otherwise the causal hierarchy is repeated. And is logically rejected. Therefore, your objection to our logical method and our philosophy is rejected for this reason.
Think better. Think realistically.
Thank you

 

[heydarian saeed]

According to the FAQ:



I read the Qu'ran years ago, and was unimpressed. I looked up those particular surah:

https://quran.com/18/19-20



Still unimpressed.

This is related to the story of the companions of the cave cave. There were 7 ministers of the Roman Empire who separated from the infidels. Because they were God-fearing. So they took refuge in the cave cave. And by God's command, they slept for 309 years !! Yes, they slept for 309 years. And their bodies remained healthy! Because the cave of the cave was affected by a great and special gravitational force by the command of God. Our inference from this story is Einstein's special theory of relativity. Which occurred in this cave. I look at the scientific aspect of it. And it affects me a lot. In the next two verses he refers precisely to the theory of special relativity. And tells the signs. This story really happened. And the cave is still there. Two options are offered. Kahf Cave in Yemen and Kahf Cave in Turkey.

 

[Pixel42]

Hello
Our reasoning is logical and philosophical according to the realistic schools. And it's absolutely right. The only objection you have made to us is: to show God in the laboratory and with material evidence. This is your thinking to prove God wrong. Because God is not material. Rather, it is the creator and creator of matter. And I told you in detail according to the hierarchy of reasons. Otherwise the causal hierarchy is repeated. And is logically rejected. Therefore, your objection to our logical method and our philosophy is rejected for this reason.

Nothing you have said here is correct. Once again you have not even attempted to understand the points and arguments that have been put to you.

Think better. Think realistically.

I do. You don't.