The supernatural

[IanS]

Hello . Please be careful. I have told you 4 logical philosophical arguments to prove the existence of God. You just said I do not agree and it is not so. You must answer me in a philosophical way. Do not just talk. Gossip has no credibility. Please be reasonable. Read my posts and your posts carefully. Do not just turn around. Be logical. Answer correctly.

I don't know what 4 arguments you gave. But you cannot "PROVE" the existence of God or anything else merely by "philosophy" ... philosophy as a subject cannot actually prove anything!

If you want to present a credible argument for the existence of God/Allah then the only way to do that is by producing scientifically valid EVIDENCE ...
what that means is observable measurable data & information that has been verified by scientific research, to show that it is repeatable, testable and consistent with all previously known & understood explanations in the main Theories of science ... that also means it must be evidence of that which is being claimed (not evidence of something else entirely!) …

… things like beliefs or guesses or unsupported claims are not valid as “evidence” …

… and the reason why it must all be scientifically valid, is because in matters of any actual importance, science has shown itself to be accurate, testable and repeatable etc. over-&-over again literally billions of times without hardly even one single real failure … But against that, all other non-scientific methods have turned out to be wrong almost a billion times in a row without ever actually being right at all! The success of science as by far our best way of investigating and explaining things in the world around us (really, it's turned out to be the ONLY way) means that any important claims of evidence really must be checked and agreed by published science research.

Unfortunately for theists like you (Heydarian Saeed) when it comes to religious claims and beliefs, you actually have no scientifically valid evidence at all … all that you have are completely fraudulent, untrue bogus claims of “evidence”.

And just to be clear - there is an unarguable irrefutable way to check that what I have said above is true. And that is - if there ever had been any genuine evidence of God, then it would certainly have been published in tens of thousands of papers in all the major science journals immediately ... and that means it would also have been immediate headline news in every news report all over the world every day ever since! ...

... and lets also be clear about something else - scientists would love to find any sort of genuine evidence of God. Even the most atheist scientists would absolutely love to publish true evidence of God ... but not a single genuine research scientist has ever found even the most microscopic spec of any such genuine evidence for any god/God ... so the unarguable fact there is that, there most definitely is no known evidence of any such god/God/Allah.

 

[Crossbow]

The best evidence for a fact is that it happened at least once. The entry of the soul into the human body has happened billions of times since the creation of man !! So how can we not want to see it when we want to see it? !!!
I hope my crazy words are not terrible. And understand it correctly.

Well now! This is a most interesting claim.

If there have actually been billions of cases of a soul entering a human body, and presumably billions of other cases where a soul leaves a human body,

Then it should be a simple matter to clearly show the soul entry process and the soul exit process.

Therefore, please show the soul entry and/or the soul exit for those of us who have never seen such a thing.

Thanks much.

 

[steenkh]

Once again: nothing happens during the development of a human foetus that doesn't happen during the development of the foetus of every other mammal. So if it's evidence of a soul entering a foetus then every mammal has a soul. Every sheep. Every whale. Every rat. Do you really believe that rats have souls, heydarian?

Why limit it to mammals? Any creature that has not started through division has a phase when it does not move, and at some point it starts moving. Thus every fish, reptile, and insect also has a soul..

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Once again: nothing happens during the development of a human foetus that doesn't happen during the development of the foetus of every other mammal. So if it's evidence of a soul entering a foetus then every mammal has a soul. Every sheep. Every whale. Every rat. Do you really believe that rats have souls, heydarian?

You say that no-one has responded to your "proofs of God" even though several posters have, not to mention many philosophers, and you completely ignore points like this one. This is why no one takes you seriously.

No no, like I've said the quickening is clearly our lord and master Satan entering the foetus.

All hail Satan.

 

[Crossbow]

Why limit it to mammals? Any creature that has not started through division has a phase when it does not move, and at some point it starts moving. Thus every fish, reptile, and insect also has a soul..

It is because fish, reptiles or insects do not have any money that could possibly find its way into a church coffer.

However, I am sure that if fish, reptiles, or insects could actually make some sort of financial contributions to a church, then churches would soon find a way to say that these fish, reptiles or insects also have souls.

 

[Tassman]

Well now! This is a most interesting claim.

If there have actually been billions of cases of a soul entering a human body, and presumably billions of other cases where a soul leaves a human body,

Then it should be a simple matter to clearly show the soul entry process and the soul exit process.

Therefore, please show the soul entry and/or the soul exit for those of us who have never seen such a thing.

Thanks much.

Indeed. Which raises the question of HOW a non-material entity such as the hypothesized 'soul' interacts with the material body. Where is the point of connection - the nexus?

 

[junkshop]

Now that is a very good question. I don't hold out too much hope for a good (or even coherent) answer, but I've been wrong before...

 

[Scorpion]

Dear heydarian. I recently said the Quran is repetitive. Here is an example. The Quran says ' obey Allah and the apostle' nearly twenty times.

The true and only meaning and purpose of the Quran is to make people obey the apostle, in other words obey Muhammad.

I realize you have been studying this book since you were five, and you have a vested interest in it being the word of God. But you are probably the only person here who cannot see the obvious that it is all lies of Muhammad who scared everyone into obeying him by claiming himself a messenger. Here are the verses as proof of the many times he says obey Allah and the apostle.


3.32 Say: "Obey God and His Apostle": But if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.

3.132 And obey God and the Apostle; that ye may obtain mercy.

4.13 Those are limits set by God: those who obey God and His Apostle will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement.

4.14 But those who disobey God and His Apostle and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

4.59 O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

4.69 All who obey God and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of God,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!

5.92 Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.

8.1 They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of God and the Apostle: So fear God, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey God and His Apostle, if ye do believe."

8.20 O ye who believe! Obey God and His Apostle, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).

8.46 And obey God and His Apostle; and fall into no disputes, lest ye lose heart and your power depart; and be patient and persevering: For God is with those who patiently persevere:

9.71 The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey God and His Apostle. On them will God pour His mercy:for God is Exalted in power, Wise.

24.52 It is such as obey God and His Apostle, and fear God and do right, that will win (in the end),


24.54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear (Message)

33.33 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey God and His Apostle. And God only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.


47.33 O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds!

49.14 The desert Arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to God,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey God and His Apostle, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

58.13 Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and God forgives you, then (at least) establish regular prayer; practise regular charity; and obey God and His Apostle. And God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

64.12 So obey God, and obey His Apostle: but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Apostle is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly.

72.23 "Unless I proclaim what I receive from God and His Messages: for any that disobey God and His Apostle,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."

 

[Scorpion]

Indeed. Which raises the question of HOW a non-material entity such as the hypothesized 'soul' interacts with the material body. Where is the point of connection - the nexus?

I can't help but answer that, but I don't want to discuss it or attempt to justify my views on this thread, having said that.

The occult theory is that we have a number of bodies, not just the physical, but also a spirit body. There is also an etheric shell which contains energy centers called chakras, this etheric body links the physical to the spiritual bodies, and consciousness is channeled down through the chakras.
I could say more, but not on this thread.

 

[Tassman]

I can't help but answer that, but I don't want to discuss it or attempt to justify my views on this thread, having said that.

The occult theory is that we have a number of bodies, not just the physical, but also a spirit body. There is also an etheric shell which contains energy centers called chakras, this etheric body links the physical to the spiritual bodies, and consciousness is channeled down through the chakras.
I could say more, but not on this thread.

"The occult theory" is just that. Namely a speculative theory unsupported by any actual evidence other than subjective feelings.

 

[Pixel42]

It's not a theory. It's not even an hypothesis, as it doesn't explain any actual observations. It's just an unsupported claim.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

It's also not substantiated by anything in Islam, and so not really relevant.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I find it interesting that the religious texts only contain broad generalisations of the most popular and often wrong concepts.

The religious presentation of biological evolution is flat out wrong and only presents ignorant criticism of the evolution.

That “1000 years is like a day for God” should have any relation to the theory of relativity is completely laughable.

Hello. I agree with you. In addition, the theory of human evolution is mentioned in the Qur'an in 6 verses in general. I have said 5 verses before and I saw one verse in new reviews. 14/19 - Translated by Yousef Ali:
Seest thou not that Allah created the heavens and the earth in Truth? If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation?

 

[heydarian saeed]

It's not a theory. It's not even an hypothesis, as it doesn't explain any actual observations. It's just an unsupported claim.

Hi.The words of the Qur'an are not claims. Rather, reality exists. That supports the fact that science is absolutely correct. How long do you want to not see the truth ?! The Qur'an is all based on existing reality and is true. Unfortunately, the deniers of the Qur'an are drowning in a widespread mistake. I'm sorry.
Did you see the 6 verses in the Qur'an that I mentioned refer to the theory of human evolution? what do you think? The Qur'an stated the theory of human evolution 9 centuries before Darwin. Exactly

 

[steenkh]

Hello. I agree with you.

That’s great.

In addition, the theory of human evolution is mentioned in the Qur'an in 6 verses in general.

That’s not so great: first you say you agree that your religious texts only contain a non-scientific, and often wrong interpretation of scientific facts, and then you bring more of the same unscientific nonsense.

Seest thou not that Allah created the heavens and the earth in Truth? If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation?

This unscientific claim has nothing whatsoever ever to do with biological (or as you call it, human) evolution. As I said, you only bring unscientific, and irrelevant nonsense.

I can also add that you lie un purpose when you say that you agree, and in fact you don’t agree at all.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Dear heydarian. I recently said the Quran is repetitive. Here is an example. The Quran says ' obey Allah and the apostle' nearly twenty times.

The true and only meaning and purpose of the Quran is to make people obey the apostle, in other words obey Muhammad.

I realize you have been studying this book since you were five, and you have a vested interest in it being the word of God. But you are probably the only person here who cannot see the obvious that it is all lies of Muhammad who scared everyone into obeying him by claiming himself a messenger. Here are the verses as proof of the many times he says obey Allah and the apostle.


3.32 Say: "Obey God and His Apostle": But if they turn back, God loveth not those who reject Faith.

3.132 And obey God and the Apostle; that ye may obtain mercy.

4.13 Those are limits set by God: those who obey God and His Apostle will be admitted to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath, to abide therein (for ever) and that will be the supreme achievement.

4.14 But those who disobey God and His Apostle and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

4.59 O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Apostle, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

4.69 All who obey God and the apostle are in the company of those on whom is the Grace of God,- of the prophets (who teach), the sincere (lovers of Truth), the witnesses (who testify), and the Righteous (who do good): Ah! what a beautiful fellowship!

5.92 Obey God, and obey the Apostle, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Apostle's duty to proclaim (the message) in the clearest manner.

8.1 They ask thee concerning (things taken as) spoils of war. Say: "(such) spoils are at the disposal of God and the Apostle: So fear God, and keep straight the relations between yourselves: Obey God and His Apostle, if ye do believe."

8.20 O ye who believe! Obey God and His Apostle, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).

8.46 And obey God and His Apostle; and fall into no disputes, lest ye lose heart and your power depart; and be patient and persevering: For God is with those who patiently persevere:

9.71 The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey God and His Apostle. On them will God pour His mercy:for God is Exalted in power, Wise.

24.52 It is such as obey God and His Apostle, and fear God and do right, that will win (in the end),


24.54 Say: "Obey God, and obey the Apostle: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Apostle's duty is only to preach the clear (Message)

33.33 And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey God and His Apostle. And God only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.


47.33 O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the apostle, and make not vain your deeds!

49.14 The desert Arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to God,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey God and His Apostle, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

58.13 Is it that ye are afraid of spending sums in charity before your private consultation (with him)? If, then, ye do not so, and God forgives you, then (at least) establish regular prayer; practise regular charity; and obey God and His Apostle. And God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

64.12 So obey God, and obey His Apostle: but if ye turn back, the duty of Our Apostle is but to proclaim (the Message) clearly and openly.

72.23 "Unless I proclaim what I receive from God and His Messages: for any that disobey God and His Apostle,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."

Hello. Thank you very much for your unwavering gratitude to me. Thank you for raising the issue of obedience. In the Qur'an, there are 78 verses of the word obedience and its derivatives. You mentioned 20 verses.
In 14 verses, he mentions obedience to other prophets at the time of their mission. The main message of these verses is only obedience to God. And the Prophet conveyed the message of God. Therefore, God actually considers obedience to Muhammad as obedience to God. And the Qur'an emphasizes that you should obey God. Of course, Muhammad conveyed the message of God.
Otherwise, Muhammad himself is on the sidelines. In essence, it is obedience to God.
But I do not seek to propagate Islam or the Qur'an. I will only take part in your discussion and the numerous questions you have with me. And from now on I will try to come less so that you will be more comfortable. Accepting the Qur'an as the word of God is not a lie. It is completely optional. At the age of 50, I have seen countless blessings from the Qur'an. And it has solved for me many problems in science - life - society - family - politics and other .... And it has been a great guide for me. You may not believe that in a severe car accident, I suffered a severe concussion, according to a specialist doctor Nerves, they said I was completely dead. And I had no vital signs. The left half of my skull was destroyed. This happened to me 19 years ago. That is, at the age of 31. Dr. Fakharian said that it was dead that you brought to the operating room !! And they just pulled the sharp heads of my two skull bones out of my brain and bandaged them. And to the room
They sent intensive care. I woke up after 3 hours of surgery and 3 hours in the room I.C.U. And I'm shocked. My wife says that the first word you said with a stutter was: God and the Quran. After this incident, I got a professional health engineering with a high grade point average.
I owe my health to God and the Qur'an. Maybe you have heard about the issue of healing the sick? ...
I did not want to explain my physical condition to you. But this situation and what our dear association said encouraged me to say. I live with the Quran. And gives whatever I want. I try. I work. I'm moving. But the Qur'an gives the result and achievement of the goal. The Qur'an is motivated. I did not say this to make you ridiculous. Or I have advertised. No. This is my inner and personal feeling towards the Quran and God. I see things in the Qur'an that if said and done, the world will change completely.
Good luck dear friend. I love you all.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Hi.The words of the Qur'an are not claims. Rather, reality exists. That supports the fact that science is absolutely correct. How long do you want to not see the truth ?! The Qur'an is all based on existing reality and is true. Unfortunately, the deniers of the Qur'an are drowning in a widespread mistake. I'm sorry.
Did you see the 6 verses in the Qur'an that I mentioned refer to the theory of human evolution? what do you think? The Qur'an stated the theory of human evolution 9 centuries before Darwin. Exactly

nope. You're just retrofitting again.

Just because the Quran says that reality exists doesn't make it any less nonsense.

The Quran is junk, allah isn't real.

As I've stated, the movement of the foetus is when our lord Satan enters the foetus. All hail Satan!

 

[Scorpion]

Hello. Thank you very much for your unwavering gratitude to me. Thank you for raising the issue of obedience. In the Qur'an, there are 78 verses of the word obedience and its derivatives. You mentioned 20 verses.
In 14 verses, he mentions obedience to other prophets at the time of their mission. The main message of these verses is only obedience to God. And the Prophet conveyed the message of God. Therefore, God actually considers obedience to Muhammad as obedience to God. And the Qur'an emphasizes that you should obey God. Of course, Muhammad conveyed the message of God.
Otherwise, Muhammad himself is on the sidelines. In essence, it is obedience to God.

Nonsense ! you are blinded by your lifelong investment in the Quran and you cannot see the obvious fact that Muhammad was a false prophet, and liar.

He claimed God gave him a message to enslave peoples minds with fear, and make them obey him. When he says "obey Allah and the messenger"
what he is really saying is obey him. Follow him, and fight his rotten wars for him, and he even says if you die in battle for him you will receive a rich reward in paradise.

The following verse summarizes the point, because he says if you do not obey him you will burn in eternal hellfire.


72.23 "Unless I proclaim what I receive from God and His Messages: for any that disobey God and His Apostle,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."

 

[IanS]

Hello. I agree with you. In addition, the theory of human evolution is mentioned in the Qur'an in 6 verses in general. I have said 5 verses before and I saw one verse in new reviews. 14/19 - Translated by Yousef Ali:
Seest thou not that Allah created the heavens and the earth in Truth? If He so will, He can remove you and put (in your place) a new creation?

Your highlighted quote does not mention evolution. Where do you think it says “evolution”? There is no mention of any evolution at all.

Also when it says Allah can put something else in your place, or when any verse says that Allah can do anything at all, that is always presented merely as a religious claim with zero evidence to support it. If there ever was any actual evidence of Allah ever existing, then as I have pointed out to you before, scientists all over the world would be examining that evidence and within weeks you'd have thousands of papers describing the evidence in vast detail …but as you must very well know, that has never happened … there are no genuine science papers claiming to have found any evidence whatsoever for the existence of Allah, God or any such gods at all … never, not even once, not even a tiny bit!

Hi.The words of the Qur'an are not claims. Rather, reality exists. That supports the fact that science is absolutely correct. How long do you want to not see the truth ?! The Qur'an is all based on existing reality and is true. Unfortunately, the deniers of the Qur'an are drowning in a widespread mistake. I'm sorry.
Did you see the 6 verses in the Qur'an that I mentioned refer to the theory of human evolution? what do you think? The Qur'an stated the theory of human evolution 9 centuries before Darwin. Exactly

The words in the Koran most definitely are “claims”. And they are claims with zero evidence.

Just because “reality does exist”, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Koran. The first copy of the Koran dates from about 600AD … but the world was "real" thousands and billions of years before anyone wrote anything in 600AD.

Everyone here agrees that science is usually correct, but the Koran is not science. In all of the millions of research papers in published science, not a single one has any agreement at all with anything in any holy books such as your Koran.

There are no verses in the Koran (or the bible) that mention evolution at all. There is nothing in your book that explains evolution.

You have been asked for actual evidence probably at least 50 times in this thread, and you have been completely unable to produce any honest evidence at all.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Hi.The words of the Qur'an are not claims. Rather, reality exists. That supports the fact that science is absolutely correct. How long do you want to not see the truth ?! The Qur'an is all based on existing reality and is true. Unfortunately, the deniers of the Qur'an are drowning in a widespread mistake. I'm sorry.
Did you see the 6 verses in the Qur'an that I mentioned refer to the theory of human evolution? what do you think? The Qur'an stated the theory of human evolution 9 centuries before Darwin. Exactly

Darwin described a theory of evolution by natural selection. He did not describe evolution by God changing His mind and he did not describe a distinct form of evolution purely for humans. In fact he rather avoided stating directly that his theory also encompassed humans as he recognised that would have been troubling to some readers.

Once again, declaring that an ancient text contains passages which can be reinterpreted as vague poetic allusions to modern science is not impressive.