The supernatural

For the article Supernatural

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If, as you have said, the verses contradict each other, can all the verses be true?

Hello. The verses of the Qur'an do not contradict each other. Some other explanation. Some are sturdy. Some are similar. Has said some generalities. Has said some details. All of the above can be seen in the Qur'an. We must have sufficient experience and knowledge in the field of studying the explanation and interpretation of Quranic verses. And if not, we make a mistake.
 
Hello. The verses of the Qur'an do not contradict each other. Some other explanation. Some are sturdy. Some are similar. Has said some generalities. Has said some details. All of the above can be seen in the Qur'an. We must have sufficient experience and knowledge in the field of studying the explanation and interpretation of Quranic verses. And if not, we make a mistake.

The Quran says if it were not from god you might find contradictions in it.
There is no more clear contradiction than that the Quran says many times God is merciful. and it also says God will torture unbelievers in eternal hellfire, and there is nothing merciful about that.

A brain dead donkey could interpret the Quran. It is all an obvious confidence trick by the false prophet Muhammad, and it is utter lies and plagiarism.
 
... God has commanded Noah to preserve the wildlife ecosystem, especially the domestic animals that humans need, as well as to preserve the environment of the land of Iraq. God wanted to save all species.
You must know that if a great flood like the event of Noah occurs, no land animals, no trees and plants will remain, and all will be destroyed. On the other hand, humans saved after Noah's flood need animals and a healthy environment.
Also, in the last 5000 years, there have been no facilities to bring animals or trees and seeds from the surrounding lands. ......


Fair's fair, heydarian. Agreed, there's the question of maintaining the local ecosystem, as well as the difficulties in those times in carting in animals and such from across far away to that piece of land, so that it does make sense, despite the flood being a local one, to still arrange for the animals on that Ark. You've answered my question, or at least, answered one of my questions, squarely, and to my satisfaction. :thumbsup:


I want to tell you an important point here. Now that I have told you about God and the Qur'an in my posts. You have received the message of God. And I have answered your numerous questions. So be careful what your approach will be from now on?
I am worried for you. And I love you. I do not want any problems for you. Please think about the messages carefully. The God of Noah - the God of Moses - the God of Jesus - the God of Adam - the God of Muhammad are one. And now he is God and he sees us. Did you pay attention? I am worried for you.
God's punishment is up to date. Did you pay attention? Do not I think it will send the great flood of Noah? Maybe another torment. In all my posts, I spoke of God's kindness and goodness. Now I needed to write to you out of God's wrath. Know that God's goodness and God's wrath depend on man's approach. If we are good, we will see good. If we are bad, we will see ugliness and torment. Let us not be unaware of the devil. He is the worst enemy of man. It is also a foreign enemy. Both internal enemy!
I love you. I love you all. Because you are human. You have scientific progress. You have technological advances. You have cultural progress. You have all the good things you need to be human. You are evolving. Please believe in God. God loves us all. God loves us all. He does not want anything from us. It does not need anything. Just be human. And be good.
Worship of God is our need, not His need! Worshiping God is our thanksgiving to God. I do not worship God for fear of Hell, nor for attaining His Paradise. Hell and heaven are in our hands. I worship God because he is beautiful. it is good. With knowledge. he is kind. And it has all the good things. His name does not matter. It is important to believe in its existence. He is there. And the whole universe is his evidence.
I am. I am not far away.


My goodness, you've left off all pretense at sensible discourse now, and have gotten down to direct proselytizing. And here I was, in another thread in FMF, sympathizing with your having gotten snowed under by everyone's comments, and suggesting a device (for discussing stuff here), using which you might be able to better engage with people's views. It seems I was entirely mistaken about your intentions, "friend".

Like I said, fair's fair, and I will grant you, absolutely, that you've addressed squarely and satisfactorily one of the objections I'd raised to your version of the Noah story. But you mustn't get carried away with having done that, and with my now, in all fairness, acknowledging that you've done that. The fact is:

(1) You've been unable to satisfactorily address other objections I myself have raised, including the impossibility of a local flood to result in water levels rising up to Ararat.

(2) You've also been unable to satisfactorily address the very many objections that others have raised here, in far more detail and at far more length than I have. You know, your nonsensical cosmological ideas, your laughable ideas about evolution, et cetera, in page after page of this thread.

(3) And finally, what we're discussing here is only the internal consistency of the Quran. Inconsistency within the Quran directly points to that text being a load of bull; but the converse doesn't hold, I'm afraid. I can point you to science fiction, like Asimov's End of Eternity, that is both internally consistent as well as broadly consistent with our reality as well. Do you understand why merely that consistency doesn't suffice, and why don't go about claiming that books of that kind speak to reality? The short answer is: evidence.



I now see where you're coming from heydarian. Let me politely ask you to lay off the sales pitch, as far as I myself am concerned. Not interested. And I'm fairly sure that no one else here will be remotely interested either, in even considering following your nonsensical religious faith.

If you wish to stop with this disingenuousness and this whole faux goodwill thing, and to engage sincerely with questions of life, the universe, and everything, both big picture and small detail --- including, if you wish, a sincere engagement with your religious beliefs as well --- then your time here will be well spent. Plenty of well-informed people here who'll take the pains to fill up some of the gaps in your own medieval worldview and your limited knowledge and understanding, as indeed they have been doing throughout. But if brazen proselytizing is all you're after, then this is not the place to do it in, you'll only be wasting your own time, and ours as well.



This kind of thing, for instance:

...The longevity of Noah was neither a miracle nor the amount of the year and time was different from the present time and was naturally long and so far no evidence has been presented that it is impossible to achieve a long life. Of course, given the medical evidence that you said, and it is true, this is strange and unlikely. But no reason has been given for its impossibility. If we look at the characteristics of Noah, we see that he was a very calm and grateful human being...


Seriously? You've seen people demand evidence from you, so you demand evidence that Noah couldn't have lived to be 950 years old?

If you lack the wits to recognize, and the integrity to admit, that someone living to around 1000 years of age is an impossibility, and a book that says things like that cannot possibly be infallible, then there is zero chance of any kind of rational discussion here on anything at all.
 
Worship of God is our need, not His need! Worshiping God is our thanksgiving to God.

You say you have read the Quran since you were five years old, but you do not seem to know your God.

At Quran surah 51.56 Allah speaks in the first person and says:

'I created Jinn and human kind only so that they might worship me'.
 
... Regarding Robert Ballard's remarks, you can refer to Turkish documents about Noah's Ark in Ararat. for example:
BOGUS "NOAH'S ARK FROM TURKEY EXPOSED AS A COMMON GEOLOGIC STRUCTURE
Robert Ballard's Black Sea Discoveries - Journal of New Science May 4, 2002 Page 13
As well as various research groups in Turkey for Noah's Ark
Good luck

Bogus ark exposed. Yes, this matches my recollection; someone who wanted to show that the story of Noah's ark was true said he had identified the remains of the boat somewhere on mount Ararat, but it soon transpired that what he had found was a natural rock formation and not the remains of a wooden boat at all.

So far as I know that's all there is and no physical evidence for the ark story exists. Earlier you claimed that there was evidence in some museum. Can you tell us what you think that evidence consists of please?
 
You must know that if a great flood like the event of Noah occurs, no land animals, no trees and plants will remain, and all will be destroyed. On the other hand, humans saved after Noah's flood need animals and a healthy environment.
Also, in the last 5000 years, there have been no facilities to bring animals or trees and seeds from the surrounding lands. Therefore, God's command is accurate and perfect. And he has considered everything.
God created all beings in the universe for man. Whatever is there is at the disposal of man to go his own way of evolution. Nature and matter are all in the hands of man. In the Flood of Noah, God commanded you to take what you ought to be saved and be Healthy for the people who were saved. Did you pay attention? Following this, you must realize the greatness of Noah's flood. The flood was so great that it covered the heights of Ararat up to about 2900 meters. The sea is made.
...


Are you claiming that it was a global flood?
 
Ramses II was an unbeliever. And he even claimed to be a god !! And he persecuted Moses and his people. He killed their sons. And enslaved themselves. So see how God punished him?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramesses_II

He is often regarded as the greatest, most celebrated, and most powerful pharaoh of the New Kingdom, itself the most powerful period of Ancient Egypt.[8] His successors and later Egyptians called him the "Great Ancestor".



Manetho attributes Ramesses II a reign of 66 years and 2 months; most Egyptologists today believe he assumed the throne on 31 May 1279 BC, based on his known accession date of III Season of the Harvest, day 27. Estimates of his age at death vary; 90 or 91 is considered most likely. Ramesses II celebrated an unprecedented thirteen or fourteen Sed festivals (the first held after thirty years of a pharaoh's reign, and then, every three years) during his reign—more than any other pharaoh.
 
Bogus ark exposed. Yes, this matches my recollection; someone who wanted to show that the story of Noah's ark was true said he had identified the remains of the boat somewhere on mount Ararat, but it soon transpired that what he had found was a natural rock formation and not the remains of a wooden boat at all.

So far as I know that's all there is and no physical evidence for the ark story exists. Earlier you claimed that there was evidence in some museum. Can you tell us what you think that evidence consists of please?

Bad Archaeology on the "Ark": http://www.badarchaeology.com/bad-data/exotic-places/noahs-ark/

Tl;dr - it's a load of old bollocks with no evidence to support it...

And, as I've said- although no-one seems to have noticed- I have been there myself. It is clearly a natural rock formation, nowhere near big enough to be the actual Ark, and it spent a lot of time at the bottom of the sea, not floating on top of it.
 
Hello and thanks for your good post.
-The longevity of Noah was neither a miracle nor the amount of the year and time was different from the present time and was naturally long and so far no evidence has been presented that it is impossible to achieve a long life. Of course, 1 given the medical evidence that you said, and it is true, this is strange and unlikely. But no reason has been given for its impossibility. If we look at the characteristics of Noah, we see that he was a very calm and grateful human being.
-I have already said in Noah's post that the oldest documents are related to the Sumerians and there is a cuneiform inscription, and I have seen the photo in the encyclopedia.
-No. 2 The Qur'an is not a copy of ancient documents or holy books. It is independent and it is real. Just keep in mind that the author and sender of all the holy books of the divine religions was one person. God- 3 Regarding Robert Ballard's remarks, you can refer to Turkish documents about Noah's Ark in Ararat. for example:
BOGUS "NOAH'S ARK FROM TURKEY EXPOSED AS A COMMON GEOLOGIC STRUCTURE
Robert Ballard's Black Sea Discoveries - Journal of New Science May 4, 2002 Page 13
As well as various research groups in Turkey for Noah's Ark
Good luck



Regarding the above highlights. First number 1 - you say that it's not impossible for someone (Noah) to live for 950 years, and you also said that “ no evidence has been presented that it is impossible “ … in modern times, say since 1900, there have been about 7 billion people living all around the world – can you point any of those billions of people who have lived to be 950 years old? Who do you personally know, who ever lived to several hundred years old? …

… I'll give you the answer – you don't know anyone who has lived to more than age 122 (that's the oldest ever known person where there are genuine records of their birth, life and death) … nobody on the entire planet knows of anyone who ever genuinely lived longer than 122 years. There are clear medical reasons why the human body wears out and why it cannot survive much longer than about 120 years, even under the most favourable circumstances.

You also said that it was not impossible for Noah to have been 950 years old. OK, so that is a claim from you – can you prove that it's not impossible for a person to live 950 years? It's YOUR claim, so where is your proof for that? Well, again I will save us all from your untrue answers – the only reason why you believe someone lived 950 years, is because it says that in an ancient holy book … but just because it says something apparently impossible in an ancient book, that does not make it true, does it! … as far as we know from all of modern science, it actually is “impossible” for a human person to live 950 years … in modern times (say the last 100 years) we can check accurately with medical science whether such claims are true … we can check anyones genuine age … and as I said above the oldest genuine age is found to be a French woman who lived to 122 (she died in 1997) …

… you are talking about a person who is supposed to have been alive in 3000BC (!!), at a time when there was no modern science to check the fantastic claims that people often made. Why is it that all your claims of the seemingly impossible, such as Noah being 950 years old, all happend at a time when nobody could check whether it was ever true? … why is it that now, in modern times, where we can actually check the truth of the claims that people make, we never find that any such claims are true … the claims always turn out to be untrue ancient mythology and superstition. What is more likely – (a) that someone lives an apparently impossible 900 years, for which they can produce no evidence at all, or (b) that people in biblical and pre-biblical times were simply repeating untrue fables and superstitious myths? What is more likely, (a) that someones claim of fantastic miracles is actually true, but always with zero evidence and always where the claim cannot be checked, or (b) is it more likely that their claim was an untrue invention?

OK, so to summarise some of that -

1 It is YOUR claim that Noah lived 950 years, so it is YOU (not me or anyone else here) who must produce the evidence to prove your own claim … so where is your evidence to show that anyone could live 900 years? … you also said it was not impossible; so again you need to prove that statement – can you prove it's possible for someone to live 900 years?

2 Why do such religious claims of the fantastic, only ever occur in times where it could not be checked? Why does no such thing ever happen today where we can check if the claim is true?

3 If I tell you that my uncle is 900 years old, but where you cannot check and where I produce no evidence, then is it more likely that my astonishing and seemingly impossible claim is true, or is it more likely that I am not telling the truth?


Regarding highlight number 2 – you say that the Koran is not a copy of any more ancient beliefs. But the Koran was apparently written about 1000 years AFTER the Old Testament bible & and about 600 years AFTER the new testament bible, and as far as I know everyone agrees with that (even Muslims). That is – the stories and the beliefs written in the Koran, appeared many hundreds of years, and even thousands of years, after the same stories and other very similar stories had already been believed & written about in much earlier books such as the bible … in fact similar religious stories had been written about for thousands of years even before the NT & OT bibles You cannot claim that the koran was new or unique when it was first written, because it was actually repeating many of the same religious stories that had already been known & preached for hundreds and thousands of years.

Also you just claimed that the koran and the bibles were “sent by God”. OK, so that is your claim which you are stating as a certain fact … so again; where is your evidence that any such God has ever existed? … it's your claim, the burden is entirely upon you when you make claims like that … so where is the evidence?

Finally, your third claim in highlight number 3 – The Journal of New Sciences, appears to be an extremely obscure publication produced in Tunisaia, and mainly intended for reports about agriculture and animals! ... I could not find the claimed paper by Ballard in May 2002 - please give a proper link to the actual paper, and quote the passage from the paper that you are caiming as evidence of Noah being 950 years old with an Ark still sitting somewhere on top of any mountain.
 
Hello. The verses of the Qur'an do not contradict each other. Some other explanation. Some are sturdy. Some are similar. Has said some generalities. Has said some details. All of the above can be seen in the Qur'an. We must have sufficient experience and knowledge in the field of studying the explanation and interpretation of Quranic verses. And if not, we make a mistake.


The Koran is shown by modern science to be untrue. Shown to be fictrion and lies. If you do not have enough science "you will make the mistake", you will falsely believe your book. You have no science understanding. Therefore you make the complete mistake. Therefore you falsely believe the Koran. This is so. It is proved. This is your mistake. Thank you oh gracious but uneductaed one ... may your imaginary god go with you. :rolleyes:
 
Finally, your third claim in highlight number 3 – The Journal of New Sciences, appears to be an extremely obscure publication produced in Tunisia, and mainly intended for reports about agriculture and animals! ... I could not find the claimed paper by Ballard in May 2002 - please give a proper link to the actual paper, and quote the passage from the paper that you are claiming as evidence of Noah being 950 years old with an Ark still sitting somewhere on top of any mountain.

Note that the article, if it even exists, says that the claimed Noah's Ark remains on Mount Ararat are bogus, and nothing more than a natural geological formation. heydarian is disproving his own beliefs. :D
 
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