The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

They came into being on their own. No maker required.

Wow. Wow. I do not agree with you at all. Think better and be rational. Thank

 

[Susheel]

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean. Don't worry dear friend.

What? Me, worry?

Simple question, why did you ask me to clarify what you did not know? I did not make any claims about your ignorance in the post you referred to.

Are you pretending to not understand to just escape answering questions?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Wow. Wow. I do not agree with you at all. Think better and be rational. Thank

Disagreeing with you doesn't make me irrational. Indeed, I only accept as reality that which has been shown with evidence. I would posit that this makes my mindset extremely rational.

On the other hand you believe an obvious book of nonsense.

I am willing to accept that you are right and there is a maker. Please provide evidence of one.

 

[Pixel42]

Look at nature, how beautiful and perfect it is.

Tell that to someone dying slowly and painfully of Covid 19, or cancer, or any one of dozens of other nasty diseases.

Look at the heavens, how majestic, precise and beautiful. Look at the motion of all objects in the universe, how it moves in a specific direction and in a special orbit. Look at the trees - at the animals - at the earth - at the stars - at the sun and the moon and .... Did these come into being on their own? Or has a maker made these with strict scientific rules?
Does anyone know the answer to these questions? ... !!

We know that "God did it" is an unevidenced and inadequate answer.

We know there are alternative answers which are more plausible and explanatory.

 

[Susheel]

Wow. Wow. I do not agree with you at all. Think better and be rational. Thank

It is a perfectly rational response. I would suggest you first understand the meanings of the words you are using. NOW, I am actually pointing out your ignorance. The word rational does not mean "things that I believe are true."

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Telling the magazine that he was asked why he did not give "credit" to God, Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."

Nature is so beautiful

 

[heydarian saeed]

We cannot assume that. Even if we postulate that every possible parallel world might exist, we cannot assume that any supernatural world is possible.



Anything which can have an effect on the material world can potentially be detected by measuring its effect on material things. Anything which cannot interact with the material world will never have any influence on our universe and may as well not exist. But you began by saying you could prove the existence of the supernatural. I don't mind how you construct your proof but it will need to be logical to be persuasive.

The content of your post was very beautiful and I was very impressed. Yes, that's what you say. There are parallel worlds if they interact with the material world in which we live and if we can understand it. And if it is not so, then it does not exist and it is a lie. You are absolutely right. The supernatural world interacts with our material world, and we can recognize and discern them from its evidence, effects, and signs. His evidence and works are matter itself. But there is no way to see it.

 

[Pixel42]

Wow. Wow. I do not agree with you at all. Think better and be rational.

Just because you can't imagine answers which do not require a God does not mean such answers do not exist, or that other people (whose imaginations were, perhaps, not permanently crippled as yours was by early religious indoctrination) cannot imagine them.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Just because you can't imagine answers which do not require a God does not mean such answers do not exist, or that other people (whose imaginations were, perhaps, not permanently crippled as yours was by early religious indoctrination) cannot imagine them.

I actually was religiously indoctrinated. Church of England.

Realised I had no good reason to believe it aged about 13.

 

[Susheel]

The content of your post was very beautiful and I was very impressed. Yes, that's what you say. There are parallel worlds if they interact with the material world in which we live and if we can understand it. And if it is not so, then it does not exist and it is a lie. You are absolutely right. The supernatural world interacts with our material world, and we can recognize and discern them from its evidence, effects, and signs. His evidence and works are matter itself. But there is no way to see it.

We take the trouble and wade through the chaos of words you call sentences to try and understand what you mean and then try to answer those.

You on the other hand just quote any random text, take a few words out of context and then juggle up a reponse that is neither here nor there.

 

[Pixel42]

I actually was religiously indoctrinated. Church of England.

I went to CoE Sunday school myself. I wouldn't describe what I experienced as religious indoctrination, though. Not compared to what many children are unfortunate enough to be subjected to.

Realised I had no good reason to believe it aged about 13.

Likewise.

 

[Susheel]

I went to CoE Sunday school myself. I wouldn't describe what I experienced as religious indoctrination, though. Not compared to what many children are unfortunate enough to be subjected to.


Likewise.

Hailing from an upper caste Hindu family with a religious dad who insisted on temple visits and sticking to horroscope based schedules. Dissociated myself around 16 after contact with cousins and students involved in the Communist Students' Movements. Later on dissociated myself from the communists too while staying on the Left of the political spectrum. Came across the works of Abraham Kovoor and Joseph Edamaruku (Sanal's father) and became a rationalist and decided to stay on after coming to know of Randi.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

The supernatural world interacts with our material world, and we can recognize and discern them from its evidence, effects, and signs.

Well, you may think so but nobody has ever been able to demonstrate that this is true.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's because the very base concept of "Supernatural" is just special pleading, pure and simple.

"There's these magical forces that can effect the world but not be detected or tested for."

 

[Scorpion]

Yes, that's what you say. There are parallel worlds if they interact with the material world in which we live and if we can understand it. And if it is not so, then it does not exist and it is a lie. You are absolutely right. The supernatural world interacts with our material world, and we can recognize and discern them from its evidence, effects, and signs. His evidence and works are matter itself. But there is no way to see it.

As it happens I agree with most of this, what we do not agree on is the nature of the Quran. For you it is a miraculous revelation from God. For me it is a book of evil lies, and of plagiarism from the bible and other sources.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I actually was religiously indoctrinated. Church of England.

Realised I had no good reason to believe it aged about 13.

Likewise. But then if there's one thing a CofE Education was good at churning out it was atheists!

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Dear friend heydarian saeed where did God come from? Who created Him?

 

[junkshop]

To Heydarian, sadly:

You sold me a story of supernatural science,
You promised a proof of paranormal presence,
My faith in the faithful is fatally FUBARed,
'Cause all you delivered was misinformation,
Misquotes and shoehorned in ******** and lies,
Warmed-over, seen before ******** and lies,
Just the same boring old ******** and lies,
Over and over and over and over,
Over and over and over, goodbye.


I am disappointed.

 

[heydarian saeed]

We cannot assume that. Even if we postulate that every possible parallel world might exist, we cannot assume that any supernatural world is possible.



Anything which can have an effect on the material world can potentially be detected by measuring its effect on material things. Anything which cannot interact with the material world will never have any influence on our universe and may as well not exist.

But you began by saying you could prove the existence of the supernatural. I don't mind how you construct your proof but it will need to be logical to be persuasive.

Hello dear friend and tactfully. I do not mean the sight of the harmony of the parallel and supernatural worlds that are not visible. But its effects and signs, which are material, are visible. Continuing this discussion; I have already said in posts 367 and 418 and subsequent posts that, for reasons of logical and philosophical reasoning, "science and perception" and "God" exist first, and secondly, are supernatural.
In order not to prolong my speech, please refer to the mentioned posts. And see the proof of what I said. But to see their evidence and material works with the special equipment you mentioned. I point out that science and perception are visible throughout the universe. All scientific documents - related pictures and videos - scientific meetings and many cases that indicate the existence of human science and perception are available. And is visible.
And you can see the evidence for the existence of God by seeing everything in the universe. Everything in the universe tells you the sign and effect of its creator and maker, God. And shows you God. They show you the knowledge of God - the power of God - the greatness and majesty of God and all the worthy attributes of existence.
Join us until the final discussion of the article.
Thank you very much.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Just because you can't imagine answers which do not require a God does not mean such answers do not exist, or that other people (whose imaginations were, perhaps, not permanently crippled as yours was by early religious indoctrination) cannot imagine them.

Hello dear friend. The argumentative ways of logic and philosophy that I have said in proving the supernatural (science-perception-God-soul) do not require religious teachings. It has nothing to do with God at all. Because logic and philosophy is the way in which the laws of nature and matter are made. And in everyday life we ​​always use it. Is it other than that? So do not confuse topics. The way of logical and philosophical proof is the strongest and most perfect way of proof. And it has nothing to do with religion or God. That's why I chose this path. The Qur'anic teachings that I have brought and will bring are rejected if they are not logical and philosophy does not approve of it. And we see that everything the Qur'an has said is logical and based on science. I told you examples in the article. I hope you have not forgotten.
Thanks a lot