The supernatural

[MarkCorrigan]

Dear fellow; The religion of Islam and its laws and what is stated in the book of the Qur'an may not be in line with the policy of the Islamic government. Therefore, you do not know what you see in Islamic governments in accordance with the religion of Islam and the Qur'an. Because they are different. I think you understand what I mean. Thanks

This isn't a response to the post you quoted. The post you quoted was my stating that your explanation for the Quranic passages "describing a round earth" was wrong.

But let's look at the point you are making here. Are you claiming that the Quran does not teach that apostates should be killed?

Is that your claim? That the Quran absolutely does not say to kill apostates?

 

[steenkh]

This isn't a response to the post you quoted. The post you quoted was my stating that your explanation for the Quranic passages "describing a round earth" was wrong.

But let's look at the point you are making here. Are you claiming that the Quran does not teach that apostates should be killed?

Is that your claim? That the Quran absolutely does not say to kill apostates?

Please, there is plenty to discuss here. Extending the subject to be Islam in general with topics like killing of apostates etc, only gives heydarian saeed the possibility of ignoring questions in the gish gallop that he is exposed to.

He already has completely ignored all objections from his first claims.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Just got my regular mailing from the Center for Inquiry reminding us of the life of Robert Ingersol (see: https://secularhumanism.org/ingersoll-museum/robert-green-ingersoll-biography/).

Great quote:

When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust.

Robert Green Ingersoll (1907). "The Works of Robert G.
Ingersoll", p.929, Library of Alexandria

Fie on all your silly religious nonsense.

 

[Scorpion]

... Continue the method; Some scientists prefer to use more precise terms such as "disconnection" to describe this phenomenon instead of the word "big bang". In any case, what is important is that by fabricating these terms, they are trying to express the fact that the universe was originally a single interconnected mass (Qur'anic term; kanta ratqa means continuous) and then its components were separated from each other. (Quranic term; separation means separated) and then the stars, galaxies, the earth, etc. came into being.
The Qur'an has surpassed Western scientists in expressing the phenomenon of the beginning of creation in a very precise way.
The Qur'an says exactly the same thing 1,400 years ago
Which scientists have achieved. Note this verse:
(Surah Al-Anbiya ', verse 30)
Translation: "... The heavens and the earth were joined together, and We separated them."
This begs the question: At the time of the revelation of the Qur'an (seventh century), who knew that the world was first a single mass, then separated, and then the present world came into being? Is he none other than the supreme force that surrounds everything? Who is he? Where did his knowledge come from?

You have ignored my post 205 which covers the fact that the heaven and earth were not joined together. There were no planets in existence for several billion years after the big bang because there were no heavy atoms until the first stars died and exploded, ejecting heavy atoms into space.

The earth was not created until 10 billion years after the big bang.

 

[abaddon]

They have proven with convincing scientific evidence that the creation of the universe began with a terrible explosion known as the "BIG BANG." Investigations into the details of the blast are ongoing.

Wrong. The big bang was not a "terrible explosion". It wasn't any kind of explosion.

They say: The universe was originally a single mass that exploded and has taken its current form over millions of years.

"They" say no such thing.

A physicist named Higgs claims that a fundamental particle formed after the Big Bang that gave mass to atoms. (In the model we have for the particle model, particles are assumed to be massless, and according to the mechanism proposed by Higgs to explain the mass of particles, there are particles that the rest of the particles become massive when they come in contact with it.)

Such a confusion of ideas is not encouraging.

In 2011, nuclear physicists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the CERN Underground Laboratory (CERN) near the Swiss-French border, which refracted proton beams at the speed of light, creating conditions in which A fraction of a second after the Big Bang, they discovered the Higgs boson stem particle. (And this particle, after the same scientist, was called "Higgs". While others have called it "God's particle"!)

That was an amusing name applied out of whimsy.

And it changed the world of physics. (Although 1,600 trillion collisions have been created in the tunnel so far, only less than 300 potentially Higgs particles have been potentially discovered in these collisions.)...

Science updates on the basis of new data and evidence. The Koran never does.

 

[8enotto]

Dear fellow; The religion of Islam and its laws and what is stated in the book of the Qur'an may not be in line with the policy of the Islamic government. Therefore, you do not know what you see in Islamic governments in accordance with the religion of Islam and the Qur'an. Because they are different. I think you understand what I mean. Thanks

While the idea of a non-extremist Islamic nation is good, there are serious doubts most would let it become dominant.

Millennia of wars over faith and a need for revenge for some past acts always dominate the thinking.

My friend, you have chosen the steepest uphill battle anyone has ever taken on.
I honestly wish more people had your idea.

 

[Lothian]

1. How the world of creation began؛
One of the most important discoveries of scientists in the twentieth century is to discredit the idea of ​​the primordial and eternal nature of the world. They have proven with convincing scientific evidence that the creation of the universe began with a terrible explosion known as the "BIG BANG." Investigations into the details of the blast are ongoing. They say: The universe was originally a single mass that exploded and has taken its current form over millions of years.
A physicist named Higgs claims that a fundamental particle formed after the Big Bang that gave mass to atoms. (In the model we have for the particle model, particles are assumed to be massless, and according to the mechanism proposed by Higgs to explain the mass of particles, there are particles that the rest of the particles become massive when they come in contact with it.)
In 2011, nuclear physicists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the CERN Underground Laboratory (CERN) near the Swiss-French border, which refracted proton beams at the speed of light, creating conditions in which A fraction of a second after the Big Bang, they discovered the Higgs boson stem particle. (And this particle, after the same scientist, was called "Higgs". While others have called it "God's particle"!) And it changed the world of physics. (Although 1,600 trillion collisions have been created in the tunnel so far, only less than 300 potentially Higgs particles have been potentially discovered in these collisions.)...

How many fundamental particles are listed in the Quran? Please provide the verses.

 

[Nowhere Man]

In 2011, nuclear physicists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the CERN Underground Laboratory (CERN) near the Swiss-French border, which refracted proton beams at the speed of light, creating conditions in which A fraction of a second after the Big Bang, they discovered the Higgs boson stem particle. (And this particle, after the same scientist, was called "Higgs". While others have called it "God's particle"!)

That was an amusing name applied out of whimsy.

The name "the God particle" (not "God's particle") comes from Leon Lederman's book The God Particle: If the Universe Is the Answer, What Is the Question?. He wanted to use The Goddamn Particle: If the Universe is the Answer, What is the Question? but his controversy-fearing editor convinced him to change it.

This boson is so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive, that I have given it a nickname: the God Particle. Why God Particle? Two reasons. One, the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing. And two, there is a connection, of sorts, to another book, a much older one...

Fred

 

[Susheel]

Hi. You mean the article, sir? Or do you want to talk about something else? I am at your service to answer as much as I can.

My query was to Warp 12. I am not responding to your thinly veiled proselytising in the name of scientific enquiry. In fact you are doing nothing that people like Zakir Naik haven't already done...and failed miserably. Except ofcourse in the eyes of the TrueBeliever (tm)

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Edited by Agatha: 

Removed reference to material sent to AAH

Honestly, this whole thread is, in fact, a testament to Islam

A testament to what about it? It is a religion whose holy book people attempt to retrofit to science in order to claim it must be the divine word of god. It isn't alone in this, and just because this is a rather poor attempt to paper over the cracks doesn't mean that this thread is unique either.

However, Islam is also a religion whose holy book very explicitly states that apostates should be killed. The Bible also shares this trait, but the quran is unique in how often it repeats this commandment. Not just the proclamations about how we will burn in hell (although that crops up constantly too) but to kill us. The Quran directly instructs Muslims to kill all non believers wherever they find them. More than once. That's a pretty disgusting book.

...and shines a light on the general intolerance of the faith.

I have no problem with Muslims. I in fact find it impressive that there are so many good people who profess to believe in the violent, supremacist book of horrors that is the Quran, just like I find it impressive there are so many good people who profess to believe in the violent, supremacist book of horrors that is the Bible.

I do have a problem with any supremacist ideology. Any ideology that states that those outside of it should be killed and deserve to be killed is a horrifying one. I don't care if it is a religious ideology like Islam and Christianity or a political one like Fascism.

 

[Scorpion]

Hey Heydarian ! I hope you have not given up posting here, I for one want to see what so called science you claim is in the Quran, if only to refute it.
Mark Corrigan is right, I have a 'venomous anger' towards Islam, and have had ever since I read the Quran shortly after the world trade center attacks. But that does not mean I cannot be polite, while I try and undermine your beliefs.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Rubbish ! It is well know that Muhammad's tribe of cut throat bandits used to sack caravans, and they stole manuscripts. That is where Muhammad got his knowledge. There was a lot of knowledge in the world at that time. Take for example the writings of Galen who wrote about the embryo long before Muhammad mentioned it in the Quran.

Hello. Please do not provide proof of what you are saying. From the hearsay - do not say anything without evidence or guesswork. Tell with the address of the document. To be checked and answered. The Qur'an says: "O you who believe, avoid many suspicions, because some suspicions are sinful." (Surat al-Hujurat, verse 12) Most suspicions are vain and bad. While some are good. We are innocent in judging the principle. That is, have a good and positive attitude towards the suspect until proven otherwise. To what extent do we adhere to this good and positive principle? So talk to the document. Thank you

 

[heydarian saeed]

Hello. Please provide proof of what you are saying. From the hearsay - do not say anything without evidence or speculation. Tell with the address of the document. To be checked and answered. The Qur'an says: "O you who believe, avoid many suspicions, because some suspicions are sinful." (Surat al-Hujurat, verse 12) Most suspicions are vain and bad. While some are good. We are innocent in judging the principle. That is, have a good and positive suspicion of the suspect until proven otherwise. To what extent do we adhere to this good and positive principle? So talk to the document. Thank you

 

[heydarian saeed]

Hello. Please do not provide proof of what you are saying. From the hearsay - do not say anything without evidence or guesswork. Tell with the address of the document. To be checked and answered. The Qur'an says: "O you who believe, avoid many suspicions, because some suspicions are sinful." (Surat al-Hujurat, verse 12) Most suspicions are vain and bad. While some are good. We are innocent in judging the principle. That is, have a good and positive attitude towards the suspect until proven otherwise. To what extent do we adhere to this good and positive principle? So talk to the document. Thank you

Hey Heydarian ! I hope you have not given up posting here, I for one want to see what so called science you claim is in the Quran, if only to refute it.
Mark Corrigan is right, I have a 'venomous anger' towards Islam, and have had ever since I read the Quran shortly after the world trade center attacks. But that does not mean I cannot be polite, while I try and undermine your beliefs.

Hello dear association. No, I have not left the post and I am proud to hear what my opponents say. But I am ready to review and answer with the document. I am at your service and other friends. And I wish you health and success.

 

[heydarian saeed]

No, a sphere does not have infinite diameter. I don't think you believe this to be true and I assume this is either a bad translation or a careless mis-statement of what you intended to say. It's just one example but I have to say it is often not at all clear what points you intend to express.

In any case, the general thrust of your argument seems to be to describe some modern science and then tell us you believe this was what the Quran was describing in some verse. As several posters have already said, this is a pointless exercise as it is too easy to retrospectively ascribe meanings to old texts and you can interpret them to mean almost anything you please. People do this all the time, often with the "prophecies" of Nostradamus, and it's a completely futile game.

Hello. Thank you for your good comment. I do not mean to say that the Qur'an mentions the scientific details of each subject. And so it is. Only in the Qur'an does it refer to science or sciences that will be discovered and achieved by man in the future.And it motivates human beings to seek out the unknown and discover the unknown. If we are careful. With a word that has wide meanings, it expresses many dimensions of this issue. I will say some of these words in the continuation of the article with its address in the Quran. Which points to an important scientific point. Thanks again.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Edited by Agatha: 

Edited to match quoted post

A testament to what about it? It is a religion whose holy book people attempt to retrofit to science in order to claim it must be the divine word of god. It isn't alone in this, and just because this is a rather poor attempt to paper over the cracks doesn't mean that this thread is unique either.

However, Islam is also a religion whose holy book very explicitly states that apostates should be killed. The Bible also shares this trait, but the quran is unique in how often it repeats this commandment. Not just the proclamations about how we will burn in hell (although that crops up constantly too) but to kill us. The Quran directly instructs Muslims to kill all non believers wherever they find them. More than once. That's a pretty disgusting book.



I have no problem with Muslims. I in fact find it impressive that there are so many good people who profess to believe in the violent, supremacist book of horrors that is the Quran, just like I find it impressive there are so many good people who profess to believe in the violent, supremacist book of horrors that is the Bible.

I do have a problem with any supremacist ideology. Any ideology that states that those outside of it should be killed and deserve to be killed is a horrifying one. I don't care if it is a religious ideology like Islam and Christianity or a political one like Fascism.

Hello. Thank you for pointing me to some points. I am accountable to the best of my ability. Of course, I also have time to review and respond. Maybe I have not seen some of my loved ones' posts to review and respond. But I think I have answered your posts. Thanks again. I respect all opinions and I also express my opinion. Everyone has the right to choose. And must choose freely.

 

[Pixel42]

It always puzzles me why people like heydarian choose this forum, out of all of those available, to present their theories, especially when they usually either ignore or hand wave away the responses. Perhaps it is the quantity of responses, rather than the quality or content, which is important to them. Whatever the reason, I can't see an acceptable alternative to pointing out the shortcomings of the theory and the total lack of evidence for it, with as much politeness as can be reasonably maintained given the reaction to those responses.

 

[heydarian saeed]

... Continue the method;
2. Expansion of the world:
The "expansion theory of the universe" is perhaps the most important astronomical discovery of the twentieth century, according to which galaxies are moving at a tremendous distance and distance from each other, as a result of which the universe is constantly expanding and expanding.The universe is expanding rapidly, but we do not feel it. Scientists have been able to measure its speed using advanced tools. This is a fact that no one knew about at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an.This scientific achievement of scientists has been achieved after a lot of research and spending a lot of money and for a long time. It is strange that the Qur'an announced the expansion of the world 1400 years ago in the following verse.
(Surah Dhariyat, verse 47)
Translation: "We have built the heavens with power, and We will never expand it."
The phrase "we are expanding the sky"; (We always expand it) makes it clear that a supreme and supreme force has created the heavens with its full power and is constantly expanding them.This matter is mentioned in the book of Quran in the seventh century AD. And even until half a century ago, scientists believed that the universe was shrinking and shrinking. Until a group of scientists realized that; The universe and celestial bodies are moving away from each other and the universe is expanding! This is while the book of Quran has said it 14 centuries ago!Today, astronomical observations by telescopes show that celestial spheres and galaxies are rapidly moving away; And the world is expanding, so the meaning of this sentence becomes quite clear to us. In the book "The Beginning and the End of the World" written by John Alder, we read:
"The latest and most accurate measurements of the wavelengths emanating from the stars reveal this astonishing fact and show that the set of stars that the universe is made of is constantly moving at a very high speed, from They move away from the center of the universe, and the farther away they are from this center, the faster they travel, and it seems that once all the stars in this center were complex, and then disintegrated and formed a large set of stars. "They break away from them and move quickly in all directions. Scientists have also used the idea that the universe had a starting point."

 

[heydarian saeed]

It always puzzles me why people like heydarian choose this forum, out of all of those available, to present their theories, especially when they usually either ignore or hand wave away the responses. Perhaps it is the quantity of responses, rather than the quality or content, which is important to them. Whatever the reason, I can't see an acceptable alternative to pointing out the shortcomings of the theory and the total lack of evidence for it, with as much politeness as can be reasonably maintained given the reaction to those responses.

Hello . Do as you please. I am at your service. I intend to present the "mentioned" scientific material in the Qur'an with a purpose that is necessary to prove the supernatural. And I told my method to you and the friends of the association at the very beginning of the article. Wishing good health and success to all loved ones.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Awww, I'll send him a gift basket.

Hello my dear friend. Of course, I did not understand exactly what you meant, but you think positively, and I was very happy. I wish you good health and eternal success.