The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

Then show some evidence for one and I will believe in him.



Then do so. Don't tell me what you are going to do, do it.



No, you've given retrofitted interpretations of the Quran. None of this is evidence.

The Quran says the Earth is flat and is orbited by the Sun. This is nonsense, we know it's nonsense. How can a book which you claim predicted astrophysics on the level of black holes get such simple things about science wrong?



That isn't how it works. You can't provide evidence that people did not know something, you provide evidence that they did. There are no documents from the 7th century that propose any modern scientific discoveries. None. The Quran certainly doesn't because it includes gibberish like the mountains holding down the earth to stop it from shaking like tent pegs.

If you think that people in the 7th century had discovered great scientific advancements like quantum physics then you have to show it. Provide evidence. Your blatant retrofitting of Quranic passages to try and shoehorn them in to modern science is not evidence.

Dear Master, tell me any defects and flaws you see in the Qur'an with the address of the surah and verse. I have a duty to check and search and give you an answer. Please do not object to the Qur'an without the address of the surah and verse. Let 's move forward logically. Otherwise, it will not be logical and I will not be held accountable. Thanks a lot.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

The Qur'an never says that the earth is flat.

Yes it does.

"And the earth have We spread out."

That's only one quote. There are several more. How do you spread out a sphere? You don't. You spread out something flat.

Look at this verse: God of the West and the East. (Surah Ar-Rahman, verse 17) In what state does the earth have the west and the east?

Any state. You can have an East and West on a flat earth quite easily.

In geometry, only the sphere and the spherical body can have this property.

Nonsense.

So the Qur'an says the earth is spherical, not flat.

No it doesn't.

Where does the Qur'an say the sun revolves around the earth? .

The sun passes over the heavens and sets into a muddy pool.

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

The sun moves just like the Moon.

Allah it is Who raised up the heavens without visible supports, then mounted the Throne, and compelled the sun and the moon to be of service, each runneth unto an appointed term; He ordereth the course;

The Sun and Moon float in an orbit (of the Earth)

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.

The Sun moves until it gets to the point where it can rest.

The sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him

The sun and the moon move at a set speed so that one doesn't overtake the other.

It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit.

The moon follows the sun it it's orbit.

By the sun and his brightness, And the moon when she followeth him,

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Dear Master, tell me any defects and flaws you see in the Qur'an with the address of the surah and verse. I have a duty to check and search and give you an answer. Please do not object to the Qur'an without the address of the surah and verse. Let 's move forward logically. Otherwise, it will not be logical and I will not be held accountable. Thanks a lot.

Do you want me to list all of the scientific and historical inaccuracies with surah and verse? Because we will be here for a long time.

 

[Norman Alexander]

You have still not answered my questions. Please try.

If Quranic words have up to ten meanings, why does it mean ONLY the one meaning you want?

For example, you say Tariq and Najm Saqib means neutron star, space black hole, astronomical pulse and even other meanings. What OTHER meanings does it have? Why did you choose only just the one meaning you wanted to support your thesis?

 

[theprestige]

Yes it does.



That's only one quote. There are several more. How do you spread out a sphere? You don't. You spread out something flat.


Any state. You can have an East and West on a flat earth quite easily.

Nonsense.

No it doesn't.

The sun passes over the heavens and sets into a muddy pool.



The sun moves just like the Moon.



The Sun and Moon float in an orbit (of the Earth)



The Sun moves until it gets to the point where it can rest.



The sun and the moon move at a set speed so that one doesn't overtake the other.



The moon follows the sun it it's orbit.

You're confusing flat earth and geocentrism. You're also reading a *lot* into figures of speech. We still talk about the sunrise even today. We still talk in terms of the sun moving across the sky, even though it's really the earth that's in (relative) motion.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

You're confusing flat earth and geocentrism. You're also reading a *lot* into figures of speech. We still talk about the sunrise even today. We still talk in terms of the sun moving across the sky, even though it's really the earth that's in (relative) motion.

1. No I'm not, both were brought up by me.

2. You might have a point, except that the Surahs I have quoted mention the sun setting INTO a pool, which would not be possible if it were stationary, and the sun and moon being set at specific speeds so they don't crash into one another.

ETA: Removed douchey comment. Sorry.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... !!! In the story and history of Suleiman, it is said that water flows in the basement of the stream. (Old Testament book) The queen enters and worries that her skirt and legs will not get wet, so she raises her skirt. Also, the word "sarah" in Arabic means glass (made of glassware). What glass is used on the floor of the building? Is it ordinary glass that breaks! So the floor glass of the palace was unbreakable. This is said to provoke you and me to find out what kind of floor this palace building was made of? And get motivated to make it. Make unbreakable glass. This has been made quite clear in order to understand the essence of the matter.

Perhaps you should tell us what other meanings the word "sarah" has in case you're misinterpreting it.

In any case you are assuming that a story about Suleiman having a palace with a stream running under a glass floor is true. I don't start by assuming the story must be true. I should like to see some evidence of a culture that was capable of producing large, thick glass blocks which could be walked on. If there were craftsmen who could make these blocks then archaeologists should be able to find traces of their industry. We know some ancient cultures has glass making skills; the ancient Romans for example. We have glass objects which survive from their time. Show us evidence that Suleiman reigned over people who could have built his glass floored palace and I will believe that story might be based on history rather than imagination.

 

[Scorpion]

1. No I'm not, both were brought up by me.

2. You might have a point, except that the Surahs I have quoted mention the sun setting INTO a pool, which would not be possible if it were stationary, and the sun and moon being set at specific speeds so they don't crash into one another.

ETA: Removed douchey comment. Sorry.

The English translations must not be taken too literally, when you say the sun sets in a pool you are probably using the Yusuf Ali translation which says " the sun sets in a muddy pool" But other translations do not say this, so it is better not to be dogmatic about one translation. I use several translations.

I have proved the Quran says the sun orbits the earth in post number 86 but that has been ignored.

 

[theprestige]

Zeno's exegesis.

 

[Scorpion]

Hello. Continue the article
Method:
The present research is in a library style with analytical and descriptive methods. First, he defines the concept of science and perception using verses from the Qur'an.And examines it in terms of logic and existential philosophy. Then, by explaining the concept of matter and the supernatural from a scientific point of view, and along with analyzing the verses of the Qur'an, the concept of the supernatural and its compatibility with modern science is examined. Finally, he proves the existence of the supernatural in nature and in the laboratory by using rational and Qur'anic reasons.The book of the Qur'an in the seventh century was inspired by an illiterate person named Muhammad (the Prophet). And the scribes wrote it and it has reached us after 1400 years (14 centuries). On the other hand, in the land of Saudi Arabia, where the Qur'an was inspired by Muhammad, there was no scientific record. And if you study the history of the world, you will see that there was little scientific material at that time.And humanity is still at the beginning of the path of science and has lived in the Middle Ages. I was curious what is in the Quran? And why read it? And to follow this book and our ancestral religion which is Islam? While apparently has no scientific background and no subject. But it is emphasized to read it.I read and saw in the Qur'an, there are wonderful scientific contents that man did not know until a century ago! And now in the 2021-2020 century, he has realized it! Even all the dimensions of this content have not been discovered yet! It was very interesting and exciting for me. And many questions formed in my mind. What is human science and perception? where does he come from? And is it of matter and nature? From what source or human or group can the scientific points mentioned in the Quran be said? If he was from a group or individual outside this circle, who is he? And where did it come from? And what was its purpose?The first command given to Muhammad is science and knowledge. He says: Sing and repeats three times. And sing in the name of God, the Creator. And he who teaches you the unknowns, recite. The book emphasizes three important points at the beginning of the book's inspiration to its messenger: learning science and knowledge, innovation and creativity, discovering the unknown, and moving toward progress. I want to tell you about some great people talking about the Qur'an...

Rubbish ! It is well know that Muhammad's tribe of cut throat bandits used to sack caravans, and they stole manuscripts. That is where Muhammad got his knowledge. There was a lot of knowledge in the world at that time. Take for example the writings of Galen who wrote about the embryo long before Muhammad mentioned it in the Quran.

 

[Scorpion]

The Qur'an never says that the earth is flat. Look at this verse: God of the West and the East. (Surah Ar-Rahman, verse 17) In what state does the earth have the west and the east? In geometry, only the sphere and the spherical body can have this property. So the Qur'an says the earth is spherical, not flat.
Where does the Qur'an say the sun revolves around the earth? Tell me the address of the surah and verse so that I can check and answer for you. Thanks.

You have ignored post 86 where I quote a hadith that proves Muhammad thought the sun orbits the earth. As for there not being a west and east on a flat earth you are talking nonsense. A flat earth still has a north, south, east, and west.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Point is, the Quran doesn't display any knowledge that wasn't commonly known at the time, and expressly contradicts some of what was known.

Even if the contradictions of then current knowledge were not an issue, it still has absurdities such as claiming that the mountains are tent pegs that hold down the earth to stop it shaking. This is just gibberish.

 

[Scorpion]

How do you know the Qur'an is more accurate in describing the big bang than modern science?

To say one thing is more accurate than another you need to have a "correct answer' to compare both against. What are you comparing the two theories against?

The following is the verse in question. Quran 21.30 from the M.M Pickthall translation.

Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and earth were of one piece, then we parted them, and we made every living thing of water ?

 

[Scorpion]

In the Qur'an, he has stated the basis of freedom of thought and expression. And I follow it. He says: Compulsion is not a matter of religion or belief. And all the ways, whether good or bad, are marked. Everyone is free to choose (Surat al-Baqara, verse 256)

Please quote the number of the surah and not the name. Non Muslims are not acquainted with the names. I happen to know you are referring to verse
2.256 which says 'there is no compulsion in religion' But the next verse 2.257 says disbelievers will be burned in hell for all eternity.

It Is not a free choice to believe, if non Muslims are burnt for eternity.

 

[steenkh]

Hello. Does physics have a law for metaphysics? What is the boundary between physics and metaphysics?

This is quite simple: metaphysics does not exist.

If you can bring convincing evidence to the contrary, this fact can be taken up to revision, but considering how many have tried, and not even come close, I think it is unlikely.

 

[Scorpion]

... Jean-Jacques Rousseau, the famous French thinker and psychologist, has a unique interpretation of the Qur'an; He says: Some people have read the Qur'an after learning a small amount of Arabic, but do not understand it correctly. If they heard Muhammad (PBUH) recite it with that eloquent word and eloquent Arabic melody, they would prostrate at any moment and shout: O great Muhammad! Take our hand and bring us to the place of honor and pride. We are ready to sacrifice our lives for your help !!

To hell with Arabic. I am ready to believe the Arabic Quran is poetic, but poetry is not important for understanding. I think that by using several translations of the Quran I can see clearly that it is not particularly literate. In fact is is a jumble of surahs lashed together, largely by length, It is also very repetitive, and often uses the same verse more than once.

 

[steenkh]

Hello. thanks for your kindness. Rest assured, I will not tell you the words behind the pulpit.

If you don’t want give a sermon, why are you doing it anyway?

 

[Steve001]

Dear Master, tell me any defects and flaws you see in the Qur'an with the address of the surah and verse. I have a duty to check and search and give you an answer. Please do not object to the Qur'an without the address of the surah and verse. Let 's move forward logically. Otherwise, it will not be logical and I will not be held accountable. Thanks a lot.

Are you so unaware that almost without exception this forum consists of persons that some call infidels? Evidently you are not aware.

 

[theprestige]

Islamic evangelism really needs to up its game. At the very least, "know your audience" should be part of basic prep.

heydarian saeed, are you aware of just how bad you're making Islam look right now? You don't understand the audience. You don't understand the material. You don't understand the medium. You lied about your original claim.

Don't you think your faith deserves a much better representation than you're giving it? Is there an Imam you can consult? One who's familiar with western idioms and conventions for religious debate, especially with atheists? One who can explain to you what you're doing wrong, in words that you can understand and accept?

Because right now all you're doing is reinforcing the perception that Islam is ignorant and dishonest, and completely uninterested in dialog.

 

[Scorpion]

... Says: I swear by the sky and (star) striking. And how do you know what a striking star is? The same penetrating star.! (Surah Al-Tariq, verses 3-1) Here, directly and without intermediaries and with an oath, he states an important scientific matter. Which was discovered in the twentieth century! What is a penetrating star? We know today that these are the same as pulsars, neutron stars, and space black holes. They make a knocking sound like a huge hammer.

Yea ! surah 86.1 to 86.3 says the morning star is a piercing star: Wrong, it is the planet Venus.
The same surah says at verses 5 to 7 that man is created from a gushing fluid that issues from between the loins and the ribs : Wrong again.