The Supernatural Part II

[Chanakya]

You are not an expert of translating 7th century copies of the Quran, either!

You actually told us much earlier in this thread what your qualifications are. And for that you told us that you have a degree in “Safety in Industry” from a university in Tehran.

Many hundreds of pages later you suddenly claimed to be a “professor of Islamic transalation”. And I asked you very directly about that as soon as you said it … and you refused to reply. That claim from you is a direct lie isn't it. You are simply yet another Islamic fanatic, one of very many on the internet, who is making false claims about academic qualifications that they either do not have, or else which are just invented worthless certificates from bogus colleges which give away stuff like that as piece of mere printed paper.

You have no credible honest meaningful or special independent academic qualifications in such translation of the Quran & hadiths or other such early writing.

Above I gave a link to debate in which an ex Muslim named “Apostate Prophet” (“AP”; real name Ridvan Aydemir) in which he debunks 60 of the most common claims of science in the Quran. After watching that YouTube film I looked at a number of his many other YouTube films with debates against Islamic preachers and Islamist activists who are making all the exact same claims that you Heydarian are making … one thing which stood out is that like you they also claim to have all sorts of qualifications in translating the Quran, and like you they claim that their oponnets are not qualified to argue agianst them … but like you, it turns out that their claimed qualifications are also completely bogus and fraudulent.

For example, in a debate against a Man calling himself Dr Abdul Majid (link below), when it got towards the end and they were taking questions from viewers, Dr Majid was asked what subject his doctorate was in & where did he get it from? … after some prevarication he eventually told us that his so-called “doctorate” was in “Islamic Banking”!! … and he told us himself that “it came from an institue in Saudi Arabia that was afterwards closed down for corruption”!!! … heres the link to that debate -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGtJ3vqedVM

… in another YouTube video AP took part in a debate against a well known Islamic Activist called “Mohamed Hijab”, who also claims to have all sorts of degrees and doctorates. Though none of it was checked, and I'd bet that like all the others his claimed qualifications are also either completely bogus or else worthless rubbish in a pathticaly silly subject from fraudulent colleges in places of dubious provenance … here is a link to AP discussing one of his interactions against Mohamed Hijab -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyraOSPI6X4

There is a very famous (famous amongst fundementalist I'jaz Muslims) Islamic author and internet preacher called Dr Zakir Naik, who claims to be a medical doctor, and who is someone that many fundementalist Muslims, inc. those like Heydarian who are insistently preaching about scientific miracles in the Quran, look up to & recommend to atheists and non Muslims as someone to guide them all for correct instruction in the truth of the Quran and its revelations of science ...In the link below AP discuses this guy, Dr Naik, and discusses the idiotic uneducated claims that he makes about such things as evolution where he (Dr Naik) actually makes the famously idiotic claim that if evlution is true then we should be seeing monkeys today giving birth to humans … and the point I am making there is that Dr Naik is yet another Islamic I'jaz fundemenatlist (just like Heydarian), a very famous one actually, who has authored many books on this claim of science in the Quran, and who is claiming to be an authority who disbelievers cannot argue against because he says he has a doctorate in medicene and is thereby some sort of “scientist” himself … and yet he is telling his gullible naïve Muslim followers that as a great expert he disproves human evolution by saying that monkeys do not give birth to humans … here is a film of AP discussing all of that from Dr Zakir Naik -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeOwpJuscDw

The overall point here is this – if you take the trouble to look at all these YouTube films of AP in disscusion with, or discussions about, various well known Islamic I'jaz preachers, such as those I've just named above, then you will see that they are making all the same claims that Heydarian is making, not just about science in the Quran but exactly the same even to the extent of claiming bogus academic qualifications, as well as almost always claiming that people who disagree with them are not qualified to disagree because they themselves are the only true experts in reading ancient Arabic Quranic texts. And if it comes to that, the similarity even extends to all of them, inc. as we see from Heydarian here, the insisttence of trying to drown out all disseneting voices by making replies that descend into huge long rambling speeches that jump about between numerous different claims as a way of deflecting from whatever actual point that is being put to them.

None of this would matter, if it were not for that fact that the beliefs & claims preached by I'jaz fanatics such as Heydarian's are actually lethally dangerous on a worldwide scale. And if you look at the videos in those links, and the various other videos of those same Islamic fundemenatlists, you can very easily see why it is unarguable that this sort of Islamic preaching is dangerous on all sorts of different levels (ie from simply misleading their own children into a cultrure of untrue beliefs in miracles & the supernatural, to the mistreatement of women as if they were lower value/class citizens etc., all the way up to promoting and facilitating violent Jihad such as we have seen so often from groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda.


Footnote – I am not endorsing everything that AP says in his videos. I am just drawing attention to the fact that he is quite prominent on the internet as an ex Muslim turned atheist who confronts fundamentalist I'jaz preachers like Heydarian and the others named above, to show why their claims in particular are untrue … that's all the claims that Heydarian has repeated here so often about science in the Quran, about calling himself an expert professor of such Islamic studies, about claiming that people here or anywhere else who disagree with him are not qualified to dispute what he says, about claiming credentials which he does not really have, about claiming that Islam is not really dangerous, about claiming that Allah will inflict terrible revenge on those who dispute the Quran and who speak against any existence of Allah, whilst simultaneously in their next breath claiming that Allah will not really torture apostates and non-believers in a burning hell etc. etc. etc.

I've heard of this Zakir Naik character. (The name was vaguely familiar, and I looked him up just now. The Wikipedia entry describes him as someone who promotes terrorism and violence.)

Agreed, while we can laugh at this nonsense, but it is not actually a matter for laughter. Very real hatred, very real violence, can be propagated by means of these nonsensical "teachings", that the young and the ill-educated might latch on to, and cause lots of griefl, for themselves and for others.

(Not saying heydarian himself is directly advocating for such! In fact he does go some way to distance himself from that sort of thing --- even as he blithely consigns "infidels" to the tortures of hell via the agency of his monster god, but that is after all nonsensical, all of that. His brand of crazy seems harmless enough, even if most definitely completely nonsensical. But you're right to point out the danger inherent in this kind of apparently harmless nonsense, because clearly he's only echoing stuff he's half-comprehendingly heard others mouth, and those others may well be in the business of promoting violence, and making use of this sort of nonsense to draw in impressionable youngsters.)

 

[Leumas]

I've heard of this Zakir Naik character. (The name was vaguely familiar, and I looked him up just now. The Wikipedia entry describes him as someone who promotes terrorism and violence.)

Agreed, while we can laugh at this nonsense, but it is not actually a matter for laughter. Very real hatred, very real violence, can be propagated by means of these nonsensical "teachings", that the young and the ill-educated might latch on to, and cause lots of griefl, for themselves and for others.

(Not saying heydarian himself is directly advocating for such! In fact he does go some way to distance himself from that sort of thing --- even as he blithely consigns "infidels" to the tortures of hell via the agency of his monster god, but that is after all nonsensical, all of that. His brand of crazy seems harmless enough, even if most definitely completely nonsensical. But you're right to point out the danger inherent in this kind of apparently harmless nonsense, because clearly he's only echoing stuff he's half-comprehendingly heard others mouth, and those others may well be in the business of promoting violence, and making use of this sort of nonsense to draw in impressionable youngsters.)

Yes... indeed... those fundamentalists Muslims, if they had the numbers and power would definitely be as perniciously deleterious as other fundamentalists who right here and right now do have the numbers and power and who have been machinating and conniving for the last 40 years culminating in the pernicious sabotage of the Supreme Court and inciting people to insurrection and almost toppling of our democracy which is still an ongoing attempt to make it a Theocracy instead.

 

[heydarian saeed]

The above is nothing more than mental gymnastics and language acrobatics and eisegesis legerdemain with much perfidy and relying on the target dupes not knowing better.

In other words unmitigated poppycock wrung out of arrantly derivative codswallop!!!

Hello
Let the experts talk about Quranic topics.
Unfortunately, you have no expertise and knowledge about this issue. And unfortunately, you only use hateful words and phrases. You need to learn about the correct discussion culture for any topic.
I recommend that you do not enter into this discussion due to lack of sufficient information and mistakes. It is not suitable to show your personality and way of thinking.
Consider this my advice as a friendly one. I like you.
In addition, this is my friendly advice to all the respected members of this forum. Talk about the Qur'anic topics and its interpretation and translation by the experts of this discussion.
Thanks

 

[Leumas]

Hello
Let the experts talk about Quranic topics.

Ok... then go away and stop demonstrating how much you are not even close to coming even within the vicinity of approaching becoming one.

Unfortunately, you have no expertise and knowledge about this issue.

However little I do have, is arrantly oodles more than you will ever hope to come close to even begin to look at let alone acquire..

And unfortunately, you only use hateful words and phrases. You need to learn about the correct discussion culture for any topic.

​

I recommend that you do not enter into this discussion due to lack of sufficient information and mistakes. It is not suitable to show your personality and way of thinking.

Ditto... a thousand times more so to you too.

Consider this my advice as a friendly one. I like you.

In addition, this is my friendly advice to all the respected members of this forum. Talk about the Qur'anic topics and its interpretation and translation by the experts of this discussion.
Thanks

 

[Pixel42]

Hello
Let the experts talk about Quranic topics.
Unfortunately, you have no expertise and knowledge about this issue. And unfortunately, you only use hateful words and phrases. You need to learn about the correct discussion culture for any topic.
I recommend that you do not enter into this discussion due to lack of sufficient information and mistakes. It is not suitable to show your personality and way of thinking.
Consider this my advice as a friendly one. I like you.
In addition, this is my friendly advice to all the respected members of this forum. Talk about the Qur'anic topics and its interpretation and translation by the experts of this discussion.
Thanks

Let the experts talk about scientific topics.

Unfortunately, you have no expertise and knowledge about these topics.

You also know nothing about how easily people with dogmatic beliefs can twist and misinterpret texts, whose meaning is crystal clear to anyone not emotionally invested in them, in order to fool themselves (though no one else) into thinking they support whatever they have decided to believe.

I recommend that you do not enter into this discussion, due to lack of sufficient information and mistakes.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Let the experts talk about scientific topics.

Unfortunately, you have no expertise and knowledge about these topics.

You also know nothing about how easily people with dogmatic beliefs can twist and misinterpret texts, whose meaning is crystal clear to anyone not emotionally invested in them, in order to fool themselves (though no one else) into thinking they support whatever they have decided to believe.

I recommend that you do not enter into this discussion, due to lack of sufficient information and mistakes.

Seconded.

 

[IanS]

Hello
Let the experts talk about Quranic topics.
Unfortunately, you have no expertise and knowledge about this issue. And unfortunately, you only use hateful words and phrases. You need to learn about the correct discussion culture for any topic.
I recommend that you do not enter into this discussion due to lack of sufficient information and mistakes. It is not suitable to show your personality and way of thinking.
Consider this my advice as a friendly one. I like you.
In addition, this is my friendly advice to all the respected members of this forum. Talk about the Qur'anic topics and its interpretation and translation by the experts of this discussion.
Thanks

You are not an expert either! And I just reminded you about that before you again went to sleep for weeks over Christmas! ... you claimed to be a world recognised professor of such Islamic translation ... but that was a lie, wasn't it!? ... you do not have any genuine academic professorial qualification from any properly independent academic modern university do you?

Above you also told us that you are giving us “advice”, but nobody here needs any such advice from you! On the contrary, you need a modern education from us (in science especially)!

When did you learn that the sky and the region that Mohamed could see above him with the clouds of heaven, is NOT actually expanding? Did you only just learn that when I posted that on the previous page? … why does your Quran claim that the sky is expanding when that visible sky with our planet & our solar system is a part of space that is apparently (according to current science, afaik) actually collapsing together? … your book and you claim that God is expanding it … but it's actually slowly contracting together under the force of local gravity.

Which university gave you a doctorate in translation of 7th century Quranic script? Where did you get that qualification (you cannot have the title of “professor” without first having a doctorate at the very least).

And … you claim that the Quran says “Stars” and “Universe” .. but that's a lie isn't it! … it does not say “stars” or “Universe” does it! No, afaik, it does not … the writers of the Quran knew of no such thing as a “Star” or any “Universe” … what the Quran describes is only what Mohamed and everyone else could see with their naked eyes, i.e. just the sky with the clouds and the Sun by day, and by night they could only see what they believed to be numerous “burning lamps” (just like the oil lamps which people used at that time to light their homes) …

... your Quran only ever describes the Sun, the moon and stars as burning “lamps” which it says are all in the lowest part of the sky just above the Earth … whereas, in fact, those night-time “lamps” are actually trillions of miles away at their nearest!

Why did your Quran not have any idea what the “lamps” were?

Mohamed and everyone else in 7th century Arabia could also see the Andromeda Galaxy M31 … but that too was one of their burning flaming “lamps” … why did Allah not know what a Galaxy is?

 

[JayUtah]

Let the experts talk about Quranic topics.

I assume you're talking about yourself. I haven't seen you display any personal knowledge about the Qur'an, but you're certainly able to regurgitate I'jaz propaganda effortlessly. You haven't engaged with anyone else who is displaying knowledge about the Qur'an. I think you're bluffing. Once you get off your script, you're hopeless.

You can't seem to keep your story straight about where your knowledge of the Qur'an comes from, either. And you get very defensive when people challenge your exegesis; you insist on principle that they shouldn't do that, rather than meet the challenges on their merits. That's a hallmark of someone who's faking it and doesn't want to be exposed.

Unfortunately, you have no expertise and knowledge about this issue.

It's pretty arrogant of you to insist that none of the other participants can understand the Qur'an well enough to participate in the debate you started here. You don't know anything about us as individuals. We're the ones talking about the language, history, and variant interpretations of the text that go beyond the warped gyrations of I'jaz. When your critics are actually demonstrating their understanding, you can't credibly keep blustering that they're ignorant.

You need to learn about the correct discussion culture for any topic.

You're the one Middle Easterner trying to foist a bunch of extremist Islamic propaganda regarding Western science onto an audience composed mostly of Westerners. Maybe you should sit out this point.

I recommend that you do not enter into this discussion due to lack of sufficient information and mistakes.

In addition, this is my friendly advice to all the respected members of this forum. Talk about the Qur'anic topics and its interpretation and translation by the experts of this discussion.

So let me get this straight. You're in a discussion forum with many participants, but only you can talk about the Qur'an. There are a number of people, including myself, who can display quite a bit of understanding about the Qur'an because we too have studied it. You insist that we must be "mistaken," but you simply declare that without being able to tell us what the mistakes are. Your only answer is that your translations and interpretations are "modern" without being able to explain how they're better.

Finally, you started a thread about how science proves the supernatural (and other) aspects of the Qur'an. I and others in this thread are actual scientists, yet somehow you insist that we don't have sufficient information to debate you. We can tell that you're faking it. That spoon-fed pseudo-science may fool other Muslims and other lay persons. But it won't fool scientists.

I agree with Pixel42. You are not a scientist. You cannot demonstrate any proper understanding of science. Your perception of science seems to come from what you have been spoon-fed by I'jaz propagandists for the sole purpose of convincing you that secular science confirms your religious beliefs--distorting both in the process. You need to understand that we are the experts when it comes to science. Consequently you should accept that you are not well-enough informed to debate your scientific claims with experts.

And on a personal note, you are invariably arrogant and rude. Decorating your posts with platitudes doesn't mask the extreme disdain you seem to have for everyone else in this thread. Your only participation lately seems to be to show up every few weeks and tell everyone else to shut up because they can't possibly match your intellect. It sounds like you have some issues to work through before you can ask anyone else to take you seriously.

 

[JayUtah]

You also know nothing about how easily people with dogmatic beliefs can twist and misinterpret texts, whose meaning is crystal clear to anyone not emotionally invested in them...

The Arabic is actually not that hard to grasp, but I say that from the perspective of someone who has studied multiple Semitic languages. Some of the really fanciful I'jaz "translations" (read: wholesale embellishments) make you think, "Just...no..."

...in order to fool themselves (though no one else) into thinking they support whatever they have decided to believe.

And into thinking that the bits and pieces of science that they've been fed actually give them a complete and correct understanding. The Mormons are notorious for this too. They have a whole university filled with "scholars" whose job is to distort and misrepresent New World (and Old World) archaeology to make it seem like Mormon scriptorial and history claims are validated by actual science and scholarship. It's so fun to watch Mormons ply this "scholarship" in actual science circles and have their heads handed to them by people who received an actual, proper education in the applicable sciences here. They're conditioned to accept without question anything these anointed servants of God say.

These religious pundits seem to have no clue that they really can't use the "science" they've been taught by their religious preachers as if it were real science. They honestly believe they can bluff their way along in a real scientific argument, and that the cherry-picked, distorted bits and pieces they really on are indistinguishable from a proper education. They literally think there's nothing a proper study of a subject could teach them that they didn't get from the pastor, imam, priest, or BYU "professor."

Sometimes it gets even worse. Sometimes the religious advocates believe their version of the science is actually more correct. They start from the premise that science is trying to disprove religion and therefore won't be honest about findings that might confirm religious principles. So when a secular scientist says, "No, that's not how the science works," the religious pseudo-scientist writes this off as biased and wrong. They respond with, "You're just saying that not because it's real science, but because you don't want to admit that science confirms my religious belief."

 

[heydarian saeed]

God clearly states the reason for the hostility and enmity of the disbelieving servants who do not believe in Him in two verses of the Qur'an: We created man in a seed from the soil. But he is openly warring with us!(36/77 – 16/4 )
Because the unbelievers have unfortunately forgotten the place of their original creation. They are arrogant because of this forgetfulness. And they are enmity with their creator. If humans don't forget the place of their original creation in the universe, they will never make this mistake. And they are not arrogant.
Arrogance in front of the creator is a very ridiculous and derisive issue. Unbelievers do not pay attention to this matter. And they deny. The true value and status of a person shows itself when he knows his creator and believes in him. All human progress in the universe is due to this correct knowledge and faith in the Creator. This issue has been institutionalized and proven in the existence of all human beings in a natural and instinctive way. And it cannot be denied.
Unfortunately, disbelievers have only forgotten their nature and essence. And they insist on this. In fact, disbelievers deny their existence. But the existence of God cannot be denied.
It is hoped that the unbelievers will understand this truth. And do not deny yourself.

 

[heydarian saeed]

You are not an expert either! And I just reminded you about that before you again went to sleep for weeks over Christmas! ... you claimed to be a world recognised professor of such Islamic translation ... but that was a lie, wasn't it!? ... you do not have any genuine academic professorial qualification from any properly independent academic modern university do you?

Above you also told us that you are giving us “advice”, but nobody here needs any such advice from you! On the contrary, you need a modern education from us (in science especially)!

When did you learn that the sky and the region that Mohamed could see above him with the clouds of heaven, is NOT actually expanding? Did you only just learn that when I posted that on the previous page? … why does your Quran claim that the sky is expanding when that visible sky with our planet & our solar system is a part of space that is apparently (according to current science, afaik) actually collapsing together? … your book and you claim that God is expanding it … but it's actually slowly contracting together under the force of local gravity.

Which university gave you a doctorate in translation of 7th century Quranic script? Where did you get that qualification (you cannot have the title of “professor” without first having a doctorate at the very least).

And … you claim that the Quran says “Stars” and “Universe” .. but that's a lie isn't it! … it does not say “stars” or “Universe” does it! No, afaik, it does not … the writers of the Quran knew of no such thing as a “Star” or any “Universe” … what the Quran describes is only what Mohamed and everyone else could see with their naked eyes, i.e. just the sky with the clouds and the Sun by day, and by night they could only see what they believed to be numerous “burning lamps” (just like the oil lamps which people used at that time to light their homes) …

... your Quran only ever describes the Sun, the moon and stars as burning “lamps” which it says are all in the lowest part of the sky just above the Earth … whereas, in fact, those night-time “lamps” are actually trillions of miles away at their nearest!

Why did your Quran not have any idea what the “lamps” were?

Mohamed and everyone else in 7th century Arabia could also see the Andromeda Galaxy M31 … but that too was one of their burning flaming “lamps” … why did Allah not know what a Galaxy is?

Hi Professor
My university degree is "occupational health engineering". And I have taken from the most prestigious universities in the world in Iran. I have no scientific claims other than this. And at the beginning of my messages in this thread, I have introduced myself. Either you have not read or you have forgotten. But regarding my comments and articles for Quranic material, I do this as a scholar and researcher. I am a Shia Muslim. And I search for scientific material about the holy book of my religion, the Qur'an. This is my school duty and obligation. And I have to do it. And I do my best in this way. All the scientific content that I have said in the Qur'an for modern science is documented and completely true. And modern science confirms it. You and no one in the world can deny the modern scientific content stated in the Quran. Your efforts are in vain.
You are only muddying the waters clear of the Qur'anic debate with your futile efforts.
You will never get the result you want.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

God clearly states the reason for the hostility and enmity of the disbelieving servants who do not believe in Him in two verses of the Qur'an: We created man in a seed from the soil. But he is openly warring with us!(36/77 – 16/4 )
Because the unbelievers have unfortunately forgotten the place of their original creation. They are arrogant because of this forgetfulness. And they are enmity with their creator. If humans don't forget the place of their original creation in the universe, they will never make this mistake. And they are not arrogant.
Arrogance in front of the creator is a very ridiculous and derisive issue. Unbelievers do not pay attention to this matter. And they deny. The true value and status of a person shows itself when he knows his creator and believes in him. All human progress in the universe is due to this correct knowledge and faith in the Creator. This issue has been institutionalized and proven in the existence of all human beings in a natural and instinctive way. And it cannot be denied.
Unfortunately, disbelievers have only forgotten their nature and essence. And they insist on this. In fact, disbelievers deny their existence. But the existence of God cannot be denied.
It is hoped that the unbelievers will understand this truth. And do not deny yourself.

And yet your very government seems to disbelieve this, as they feel they need to use capital punishment to force people to believe in their creator or else.
If the existence of a deity is undeniable, religion is unnecessary.

As I, and many others have pointed out, scientifically, there is nothing that points to a creator, let alone one of the specific human fictions.

 

[Leumas]

...I have no scientific claims other than this.... I do this as a scholar and researcher. I am a Shia Muslim. And I search for scientific material about the holy book of my religion... All the scientific content that I have said in the Qur'an for modern science is documented and completely true. And modern science confirms it. You and no one in the world can deny the modern scientific content stated in the Quran....

Goodness gracious... what a pile of abject claptrap all the above is...

Look man... when you can scientifically explain why the demon called Allah (a.k.a. YHWH) did the licentious job of blowing into the فرج of a married human girl whom he called his girlfriend and how scientifically he made this poor violated girl have an ill begotten son and why scientifically this lascivious Allah (a.k.a. YHWH) was such a cad and a deadbeat daddy so as to deny that the ill begotten son is his... then come back and talk about other claptrap you think is scientific in the 1400 years ago desert brigand's book of turpitude and flimflam.

 

[Pixel42]

I search for scientific material about the holy book of my religion, the Qur'an. This is my school duty and obligation. And I have to do it.

You really don't, you know. You could spend your time doing something worthwhile instead.

You only have a limited time on this planet, don't waste it on this nonsense.

 

[Leumas]

God clearly states the reason for the hostility and enmity of the disbelieving servants who do not believe in Him in two verses of the Qur'an: We created man in a seed from the soil. But he is openly warring with us!(36/77 – 16/4 )
Because the unbelievers have unfortunately forgotten the place of their original creation. They are arrogant because of this forgetfulness. And they are enmity with their creator. If humans don't forget the place of their original creation in the universe, they will never make this mistake. And they are not arrogant.
Arrogance in front of the creator is a very ridiculous and derisive issue. Unbelievers do not pay attention to this matter. And they deny. The true value and status of a person shows itself when he knows his creator and believes in him. All human progress in the universe is due to this correct knowledge and faith in the Creator. This issue has been institutionalized and proven in the existence of all human beings in a natural and instinctive way. And it cannot be denied.
Unfortunately, disbelievers have only forgotten their nature and essence. And they insist on this. In fact, disbelievers deny their existence. But the existence of God cannot be denied.
It is hoped that the unbelievers will understand this truth. And do not deny yourself.

All one needs to definitively debunk the Quran as the work of yet another charlatan just like all the others in the annals of human perfidy and gullibility is....

Note that it repeats all the fairy tales of the Buybull... almost verbatim in many cases... and even the further fables in the Talmud too.​

Abraham never existed, yet the Quran has him as the first Muslim and repeats fairy tales about him as if he were real... all plagiarized from the Buybull...

So.. the Quran is definitely a derivative claptrap from earlier flimflam in the Buybull and Talmud... and even proto-christian fables... and Greek and Zoroastrian poppycock.

This is an irrefutable FACT... and thus... all this casuistic poppycock about hindsight gleaned pseudo-science retrofitting... is abjectly pointless and does not in any way redeem the pile of preposterous claptrap from clearly being derivative codswallop.

If you were to prove every single claim about the pseudo-science you are stating is in the 1400 years old desert book of flimflam... you will not... but let's say you do by some demonic conjuring.... you still have to explain why Allah saw it fit or necessary to do the job of blowing into الفرج of his girlfriend Mary to make her pregnant with Jesus and how that was by any means moral or rational let alone scientific!

Even if you were to do the impossible you would still need to expound on why Allah saw it fit and proper to do this licentious turpitudinous travesty!

If it is true that Allah did what he claims to have done in Q66:12... then whether he exists or not and is indeed capable of anything or not... he is for sure nothing more than a DEMON.

If it is not true... then either he is a DEMON or the 1400 years ago wily poetic desert brigand was a perfidious charlatan.

Sane moral people... whether they know science or not... can appreciate that a book that claims

the creator of the universe said that he saw that his married human girlfriend has guarded her vulva and thus he did the job of blowing in it so that she can get pregnant​

is either

• a book written by a charlatan...

or

• a book written by an insane demented ignoramus...

or

• a book written by a DEMONIC deceiver who deceived the poor dupe who repeated its words

QED!!!

 

[JayUtah]

My university degree is "occupational health engineering".

That doesn't qualify you to be either a Qur'anic scholar or a scientist.

All the scientific content that I have said in the Qur'an for modern science is documented and completely true. And modern science confirms it.

No, it isn't. And you're not qualified to say that it is. Many of us are actual scientists with the proper training and years of experience. We know where your claims regarding science and the Qur'an are coming from. You've been spoon-fed them by I'jaz teachers, whom you trust implicitly and who have assured you that it's real science and real Islam.

You and no one in the world can deny the modern scientific content stated in the Quran.

I assure you I can.

You will never get the result you want.

You will never convince scientists that your holy book has a foundation in modern science, with the ignorant arguments you've presented.

 

[JayUtah]

God clearly states...

Let me get this straight. You're accusing your critics here of being arrogant?

 

[Leumas]

You will never convince scientists that your holy book has a foundation in modern science, with the ignorant arguments you've presented.

Or any argument whatsoever by him or any person ever....

All one has to do to know that the Quran is a pile of mephitic fetid charlatan excretions... is read Q66:12.... where the alleged creator of the universe BOASTS about his human married girlfriend and how, after ensuring she had guarded her vulva, he proceeded to do the job of blowing in it to make her pregnant with his son whom he denies is his son... case closed!!

And that is on top of it being nothing but derivative poppycock from the fairy tales of the Buybull which has such grotesquely unscientific claptrap as The Law Of The Leper (Leviticus 14:1-31 ) and The Law Of Jealousies (Numbers 5:21-29) and a witch who summons a vaticinating ghost (1 Samuel 28).... not to mention the other hogwash derived from the New Tall tales which has a Zombified human sacrificed ill begotten demi-god who, after a weekend of BDSM with strapping Romans in domineering uniforms, hops onto a cloud and flies up up and away to outer space in order to sit on two sequined thrones above the domed ceiling of the flat earth.

 

[IanS]

Hi Professor
My university degree is "occupational health engineering". And I have taken from the most prestigious universities in the world in Iran. I have no scientific claims other than this.

Indeed, and that is almost exactly what I said quoting you from memory ... what you have just said above about your qualifications is not at all different in any significant way from what I had just said to you about it ... so to repeat - your university degree is NOT in any way whatsoever to do with independent academic study of early/original Islamic religious texts such as the Quran &/or the Hadiths.

However, one other thing to say about your above quote is that your university in Iran is not as you just added "the most prestigious in the world". It's not remotely in that class ... none of the universities in the Islamic nations are anywhere near the top ranks of UK, European and US universities. However, that does not really matter, because your degree has nothing to do with the claims and beliefs that you have been preaching here about your religion and it's holy books. And I'm not in any case wishing to undermine the study that you or anyone undertakes for a university degree - that's all good ... but it's not a degree that is in any way qualifying you as a world expert professor in Islamic translation of the original/early Quran.

And at the beginning of my messages in this thread, I have introduced myself. Either you have not read or you have forgotten.

I had read it, and I had certainly not forgotten. That's why I was able to quote from memory what you had claimed about your qualifications.

But regarding my comments and articles for Quranic material, I do this as a scholar and researcher.

That is NOT an academic professorial qualification in Quranic translation is it!!

You are now admitting that you are simply a fanatical believer in the religion of Islam and it's holy books, and like many such fanatical believers you have tried to read and understand as much as you can from those books.

But in doing that, you have been badly misled by the many I'jazz preachers & others who have falsely claimed to find scientific statements in hundreds of verses all over the Quran. You have believed those translations ... you are believing translations that have been dreamed up and invented by the most fanatical Islamists who think that by doing that, they can prove God ... and who think they can persuade others like you to believe that God is proved by their "new" translations ... but the translations are generally NOT accepted by genuine Islamic academics, and in any case even their “new I'jaz” translations do not describe any modern science anyway ...

... your translations which you have given here do not contain any sensible, accurate or genuine descriptions of any part of any modern science whatsoever ... there is no revelation of modern science there at all.

I asked you several times on the past few pages - just pick any 1, 2 or 3 verses from the Quran where you claim a clear description of modern science, and let us all examine in proper objective detail what those verses actually say ... why have you not accepted that challenge to your claims?

I am a Shia Muslim. And I search for scientific material about the holy book of my religion, the Qur'an. This is my school duty and obligation. And I have to do it. And I do my best in this way.

Indeed - you are looking in the Quran for things that you already, ie previously, wanted and expected to find! ... That is - you had a preconceived belief that the Quran contains miraculous revelations of modern-day science ... and with that belief already fixed in your mind, you have then read and re-read the Quran (and the Hadiths?) trying to find verses that sound to you as if they are indeed just what you were looking for & what you already felt sure were there in the texts, ie verses that sound to you like actual science ... but the words you are reading do not sound at all like any modern science to anyone except Islamic fanatics who already think that the words MUST be describing science and that it must therefore be a proof of Allah ... nobody else, nobody outside your Islamic faith, sees any modern science in any of those verses ...

... on the contrary, what is crystal clear in all of those verses, is that where they mention things about the natural world such as the sky, the stars, the Sun & the Moon, mountains, creation of humans etc., their description is completely unscientific and entirely incompatible with and entirely wrong according to all that the world has since discovered through real science ... all of those descriptions in the Quran are completely wrong as far as any modern science is concerned.

All the scientific content that I have said in the Qur'an for modern science is documented and completely true. And modern science confirms it. You and no one in the world can deny the modern scientific content stated in the Quran. Your efforts are in vain.
You are only muddying the waters clear of the Qur'anic debate with your futile efforts.

So far you have claimed science in the Quran, but you have not produced any such science from the Quran. Please produce any 1, 2 or 3 verses where you claim there is a clear revelation of modern science, eg verses about the stars, about the sun or the moon, or about the expansion of the universe, because those are quite clear scientific things ... just produce any verse of that sort and lets examine it to see whether it does reveal the science that you claim, or not!

You will never get the result you want.

What result do you think I want?

Do you think I expect to change your mind about your religious belief? I do not ... I think you are a hopelessly deluded religious fanatic who will probably never change your mind, because you will always refuse to make any honest self examination of why you believe in ancient religious books and ancient religious claims of invisible magic gods.

What I do want to do, and what I am trying to do, is to stop religious fanatics like you going around unopposed spreading dangerous and anti-educational religious beliefs on the internet … what I want to do is to oppose dangerous religious ancient superstitious uneducated & untrue beliefs like that. I want to stop people like you infecting young minds with dangerous untrue fanatical nonsense.

And apart from all of the above, you have again failed to have any answer to any of the questions that I have put you in any recent posts now …

… why did you claim that the Quran says the sky and it's layers of heaven are “expanding” ?

… why does the Quran describe the Moon as a burning light in the same way as the Sun and the stars?

… why does the Quran say that the Sun follows the moon in an “orbit” above the Earth?

… why does the Quran say that the Sun goes to a resting place each night?

… why does the Quran say that stars are in the sky just above the Earth?

… why does the Quran not mention any Galaxy, such as our own Galaxy?

… why does the Quran say that the Earth was made before the stars and the rest of the Universe?

… why does the Quran never say that the Earth “orbits” anything?

… why does the Quran say that only some “Smoke” existed and that Allah commanded Earth and “Heaven” to form from the smoke?

 

[Leumas]

...

And apart from all of the above, you have again failed to have any answer to any of the questions that I have put you in any recent posts now …

… why did you claim that the Quran says the sky and it's layers of heaven are “expanding” ?

… why does the Quran describe the Moon as a burning light in the same way as the Sun and the stars?

… why does the Quran say that the Sun follows the moon in an “orbit” above the Earth?

… why does the Quran say that the Sun goes to a resting place each night?

… why does the Quran say that stars are in the sky just above the Earth?

… why does the Quran not mention any Galaxy, such as our own Galaxy?

… why does the Quran say that the Earth was made before the stars and the rest of the Universe?

… why does the Quran never say that the Earth “orbits” anything?

… why does the Quran say that only some “Smoke” existed and that Allah commanded Earth and “Heaven” to form from the smoke?

And above all...

... why does the Quran say that Allah did the job of blowing in the well guarded vulva of his married girlfriend... and how can that job of blowing in her vulva make her conceive an ill begotten son.?

... why does the Quran say that Allah is a cad who denied his ill begotten son that resulted from the job of blowing he did in the vulva of his married girlfriend??