The Stimulus Seems to have failed

Then by your logic, Bush's tax cuts never worked because they failed to trickle down and expand the economy.
 
Pythonic said:
Then by your logic, Bush's tax cuts never worked because they failed to trickle down and expand the economy.
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I think you got this backwards.

By BaC's logic, Bush's tax cuts were successful. Look at how much the economy was booming in 2006, 2007. It wasn't until Obama was elected that the economy went to crap, so even though TARP was Bush's last action in office, the entire debt and recession are Obama's fault and the Bush tax cuts worked.
 
BobTheDonkey said:
I think you got this backwards.

By BaC's logic, Bush's tax cuts were successful. Look at how much the economy was booming in 2006, 2007. It wasn't until Obama was elected that the economy went to crap, so even though TARP was Bush's last action in office, the entire debt and recession are Obama's fault and the Bush tax cuts worked.
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Obama didn't repeal the Glass-Stengal provision that allowed all those CDO's to be sold with bad loans in them and the banks able to completely skirt any risk in the transaction. That was the wonderful 12 years of GOP congressional magic, which is the period Phil Gramm oversaw Fannie and Freddie, too. Deregulation worked as well then as it did for the S&L industry in the eighties. Good job!
 
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2011/01/07/december_jobs_report_seen_showing_greater_hiring/

The nation's economy added 103,000 jobs in December and the unemployment rate dropped to 9.4 percent last month, its lowest level in 19 months.
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Wow! Sounds like good news. But is it?

Probably not as much as most Obamaphiles dream …

But the job growth fell short of expectations based on a strengthening economy. And the drop in unemployment was partly because people stopped looking for work.
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Another disquieting BLS datum is the average number of weeks workers are now unemployed. That number now stands at 34.2 weeks, which is the second highest reading in the survey’s 63-year history (all-time high was 34.8 in July 2010).

You want to know how they managed to report a significantly lower unemployment rate than last month? Here's part of the answer …

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm

From December 2009 to October 2010, the Bureau of Labor reported that the Civilian Labor Force went up dramatically.

Dec 2009 - 153,172,000
Oct 2010 - 153,960,000

An increase of 788,000.

Then in November that increase suddenly stopped.

Nov 2010 - 153,950,000

And here in December it fell dramatically

Dec 2010 153,690,000

A drop of 260,000

Why did it drop?

People giving up their search for work. A lot of them students.

Include them in the number of people unemployed, in other words, make the number of unemployed 14,485,000 + 260,000 = 14,745,000 , then the unemployment rate is at 9.6%. Not a very big drop from 9.8%, considering it was the Christmas season. Also keep in mind that economists consider the December report less reliable and more volatile.

But perhaps I'm just too gloomy. Maybe it will all work out in time for the 2012 election. ;)
 
Wow, that pie in the sky "green job" stimulus thing that Obama and California democrats pushed and pushed and pushed sure is working out:

http://econintersect.com/b2evolution/blog1.php/2011/01/14/american-solar-panel-maker-moves-to-china

January 14th, 2011

… snip …

Here's what Keith Bradsher wrote in The NY Times:

Aided by at least $43 million in assistance from the government of Massachusetts and an innovative solar energy technology, Evergreen Solar emerged in the last three years as the third-largest maker of solar panels in the United States.

But now the company is closing its main American factory, laying off the 800 workers by the end of March and shifting production to a joint venture with a Chinese company in central China.
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:rolleyes:
 
kellyb said:
You're right - making a fortune using American labor and then using that fortune to move to a developing country to make even greater profits should be forbidden.
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But gee, kb, don't you think Massachusett's democrats and the Obama administration couldn't have seen this coming? Why throw all that money at a company which was bound to leave the country given that they'd be competing with Chinese companies that have cheap loans, electricity and labor, and pay recent college graduates in engineering $7,000 a year? In fact, why throw all that money at a technology where the cost of producing electricity is so much more than it costs to produce with other means? Perhaps it would have been far wiser, if you were going to *stimulate* anything, to have pushed a major effort to build nuclear power plants in the US ... power plants which would have used US materials, US labor and which would produce electricity at a fraction of the solar power cost? Now THAT would have stimulated. Hmmmm?
 
BeAChooser said:
But gee, kb, don't you think Massachusett's democrats and the Obama administration couldn't have seen this coming? Why throw all that money at a company which was bound to leave the country given that they'd be competing with Chinese companies that have cheap loans, electricity and labor, and pay recent college graduates in engineering $7,000 a year? In fact, why throw all that money at a technology where the cost of producing electricity is so much more than it costs to produce with other means? Perhaps it would have been far wiser, if you were going to *stimulate* anything, to have pushed a major effort to build nuclear power plants in the US ... power plants which would have used US materials, US labor and which would produce electricity at a fraction of the solar power cost? Now THAT would have stimulated. Hmmmm?
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I don't disagree with that.
 
GAO audit of foreign transactions

BeAChooser said:
GAO can't audit foreign transactions. The Fed gets to keep them secret.
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What is the reasoning for that? Preventing international politics from influencing monetary policy? Makes sense. What knowledge about these transactions exist (after a 5-year audit etc is done)?
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/25/AR2011012507037.html

Outside D.C., a grim housing market

While home prices continue to tumble in many major metropolitan areas, the Washington region is one of the few bright spots where prices are rising, according to two reports released Tuesday.

Only four of the 20 areas tracked by the S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price Index posted year-over-year price gains in November. Washington led the way, with a 3.5 increase in single-family home prices, according to the report.

… snip …

The closely watched S&P/Case-Shiller report shows that housing prices, compared year-over-year, have declined nationally for six consecutive months. The downward path suggests that housing prices could, by spring, hit their lowest level since April 2009, said David Blitzer, the index committee's chairman.

Already, nine major cities have dipped to new lows, the report shows. They are Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, Las Vegas, Miami, Portland, Ore., Seattle and Tampa.

In the past, a revival of the housing market has played huge role in pulling the economy out of downturns. So a double dip in home prices would be a setback to the nation's financial health just as the economy is starting to show signs of improvement.
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Ever the optimists, aren't they?
 
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/gallup-only-9-democrats-favor-increased

February 01, 2011

(CNSNews.com) - A recent Gallup poll shows that only 5 percent of Americans favor increased stimulus spending as the best approach to improving the U.S. economy. 
 
The poll also found that when broken down by party affiliation only 9 percent of self described Democrats see increased stimulus spending as a the best way to get the U.S. economy moving again.
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Yet …

in last week’s State of the Union Address, President Obama spent nearly half of the speech calling for additional spending for various projects intended to stimulate job creation and economic growth.
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And …

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/had_enough_stimulus_not_obama.html

January 24, 2011

… snip …

Senate Majority Whip Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) on Sunday called new proposed spending expected to be rolled out in President Obama's State of the Union address part of a stimulus.

"It's part of a stimulus. but we're sensitive to the deficit," Durbin said on "Fox News Sunday" when asked by host Chris Wallace about the president's expected plans to call for more spending for infrastructure, education, research in his State of the Union address Tuesday night to a joint session of Congress.
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Looks like they just keep lying to us in the hopes of making us think things are improving.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article26019.html

The Economic “Recovery” in Consumer Loans Isn’t Real

… snip …

My interpretation is that the private economy is still in a downturn, because the Federal Reserve numbers when adjusted, as I provide here, are still showing we are in the worst decline on record. Not shown here is that government debt has been soaring, contributing to other positive economic numbers but leaving us with a debt burden for the future. I think the economy is weaker than the general consensus of economic reporters, because they haven't looked as closely at what is inside the numbers.
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Gee … where are all those stimulus jobs?

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/107...d-fed-us-jobless-rate-likely-to-stay-high.htm

February 1, 2011

U.S. unemployment will stay high "for some time," in part because changes in the labor market have made it tougher for those out of work to find jobs, a Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland economist said on Monday.

While cyclical factors are responsible for the increase in the unemployment rate, structural factors are largely responsible for its persistence, Cleveland Fed economist Murat Tasci said. The unemployment rate registered 9.4 percent in December, and economists expect it to rise to 9.5 percent this month.

… snip …

Minneapolis Fed President Narayana Kocherlakota has suggested the "natural" rate of unemployment, long pegged at 5 percent, could now be as high as 8 percent.

… snip …

The U.S. jobless rate has stayed above 9 percent for the past 20 months, the longest period of high unemployment since the Great Depression.
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:eek:
 
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