The Stimulus Seems to have failed

Nah, nobody's got the stomach for socialism around here.

In this environment, even if any higher-ups wanted to go that route, there's no way they could.
Right. One of the reasons they're catching so much heat for the healthcare bill. (Another major reason being that it's a terrible piece of legislation.)

But I'd go even farther than you on that last point -- the main concern is a failure to govern altogether.
Depends what you mean by a failure to govern. The government is still churning out legislation - it's just rotten legislation.

A failure to take responsibility is how I'd put it. And I absolutely agree that that's not a partisan problem - it's endemic.
 
Right. One of the reasons they're catching so much heat for the healthcare bill. (Another major reason being that it's a terrible piece of legislation.)

Yeah, it's a godawful piece of work, ain't it.

Intended to rein in costs, and that's the one thing it fails to do.

At best, it makes no difference in cost.

Our government if flat out broken.
 
Well...

I'm an Australian, so I won't say too much. ;)

But we have universal public healthcare of a decent standard, and our economy hasn't gone down the drain. In fact, it's been quite robust over the last twenty years or so. (Which is not to say that I'm particularly impressed with our own political parties either.)
 
Well...

I'm an Australian, so I won't say too much. ;)

But we have universal public healthcare of a decent standard, and our economy hasn't gone down the drain. In fact, it's been quite robust over the last twenty years or so.

Which is why if the democrats healthcare plan came close to a blurred approximation of something vaguely similar to your system, it might not be the steaming mound of BS that it is.
 
Another negative jobs report, with downward revisions to employment. Haven't we had negative job growth since the stimulus was passed? Wouldn't that normally be considered a sign of failure?
 
Hmm, why are you using non-seasonally adjusted numbers?
You seemed to think that was a major no-no when I did that previously?

All the unemployment rates mentioned earlier on this thread, including the rates during the 1981/82 recession that were offered for comparison, were seasonally adjusted. So what was your purpose in tossing out non-seasonally adjusted rates other than to obfuscate? And in my book, deliberate obfuscation is a form of dishonesty because it's intended to cloud the truth.
 
Another negative jobs report, with downward revisions to employment. Haven't we had negative job growth since the stimulus was passed? Wouldn't that normally be considered a sign of failure?

Maybe they're giving the money to the wrong folks. Greenspan was mumbling something about indecision by US businesses to invest in an environment where taxes might spiral upwards but the payoff would be several quarters down the road anyhow.

Some information on recent jobs growth or rather negative growth:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...-unexpectedly-eliminated-jobs-last-month.html.

A weak US dollar is still bad for Canada.
 
I was pointing out how politically inept the Democrats were (and still are).

Your saying that doesn't prove you're not a democrat, Piggy.

Republicans say they're leaders are politically inept all the time.

But they don't go around saying Obama is doing an "OK job". :D
 
Dude, as much as you may dislike them, these folks are experienced DC grinders, just like their GOP counterparts. They are not naive idiots like O'Donnell, conspiracy theorist nutjobs like Paul, or gutter thugs like Paladino.

LOL! Here you go folks.

Someone who claims to be a Rockefeller Republican defending the likes of Barney Franks and Maxine Waters ... equating them to their GOP counterparts.

See why I remain a bit skeptical about Piggy? :D
 
I don't "support" anything that happened in the past and is over.

You think FDR's New Deal is over? Hardly. Many of the programs and certainly the attitude it put into place are still with us today. Again, you say something that simple doesn't sound like a republican. Instead that sounds like someone trying to minimize the damage that the New Deal did.

I do agree that we need to keep a very sharp eye on where the "sweet spot" is, between keeping the economy from stalling, and creating a fiscal time bomb.

And yet you support Obama, when even his people are now beginning to admit they have created an unsustainable fiscal time bomb. Even Obama is saying that.

They're talking a good game about reining in the spending, but they don't seem to have the political savvy or muscle to actually make it happen.

You make it sound like republicans are the ones preventing democrats from doing that. LOL! Democrats have complete control of the Presidency and both Houses of Congress. They can even prevent filibusters. And the Supreme Court seems to be siding with the left too. NOTHING has kept democrats from reining in spending. That's simply nonsense. On the contrary, under their control government spending, present and future, has gone through the roof. Over the objections of republicans.

It would be less scary if the current Republican caucus showed any interest in tackling the deficit, but their pandering policies are likely to make things just as bad, or worse, as the Democrats' strategies. Their "pledge" is a ********* train wreck!

There you go, sounding just like a democrat again. Almost word or word from the democrat talking points memo. And spreading nothing but lies and disinformation. Seriously, Piggy, if you can't even be honest enough to admit to readers up front that you're a democrat, why should they trust ANYTHING you have to say or claim? :D
 
Right now I sense that the Obama administration has finally figured out that its Silicon Valley fueled populist approach has run out of steam. (Hell, just look at that *************** of a Gulf-oil-spill speech -- no solutions, just a promise to keep an ear out for ideas.) And I'm not seeing any alternatives coming out of the inner circle.

On the contrary, the alternative coming out Obama's inner circle is to rule by fiat and executive directive. Even that leftist mouthpiece the LA Times has acknowledged this:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-staff-strategy-20101007,0,6919242.story

White House staff changes are being made with an eye toward achieving goals through executive actions rather than by trying to push plans through the next Congress, which is expected to be even more hostile to the president

And you can't help but laugh at their suggestion this Congress has been "hostile" to the president. :rolleyes:
 
Hmm, why are you using non-seasonally adjusted numbers?
You seemed to think that was a major no-no when I did that previously?

LOL! Perhaps it's ok to do that here because the article is comparing those numbers to other non-seasonally adjusted numbers. That should be less problematic than what you tried to do, joobz.

And, besides, the most important point of the article is that after mid-September, unemployment was seen to significantly increase, a fact that may not be reflected in the last unemployment numbers the government will issue before the November elections.

One last point … historical data on seasonally adjusted versus unadjusted unemployment (http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2010/Mar/us-unemp-31-1.png and http://img.skitch.com/20091217-pjp14cd8xq1qmdtejum923k6yw.jpg ) seems to indicate that year after year in July, August and September, the seasonally adjusted unemployment (red line) tends to be higher than the non-seasonally adjusted numbers (blue line). So that would suggest the unemployment rate is now even higher than the 10.1% that Gallup suggested. :D
 
You make it sound like republicans are the ones preventing democrats from doing that. LOL! Democrats have complete control of the Presidency and both Houses of Congress. They can even prevent filibusters. And the Supreme Court seems to be siding with the left too. NOTHING has kept democrats from reining in spending. That's simply nonsense. On the contrary, under their control government spending, present and future, has gone through the roof. Over the objections of republicans.
So what about when Bush was president, and the Republicans had complete control of the presidency and both houses of Congress? Did THEY rein in spending? No they did not - they turned the surplus Clinton left into the biggest deficit in history. Where were the Republicans' objections THEN?

Huh? Where? Huh? (crickets) :D
 
LOL! Perhaps it's ok to do that here because the article is comparing those numbers to other non-seasonally adjusted numbers.
I did the exact same thing. I only compared non adjusted numbers to non adjusted numbers.
I'll wait for an apology.
 
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Well...

I'm an Australian, so I won't say too much. ;)

But we have universal public healthcare of a decent standard, and our economy hasn't gone down the drain. In fact, it's been quite robust over the last twenty years or so. (Which is not to say that I'm particularly impressed with our own political parties either.)

Clearly, a single-payer system would be more efficient for us, too.

Keep private doctors, hospitals, and such, just get rid of this horribly inefficient network of insurers.

In most of the civilized world, you need one or two people to handle the single-payer paperwork at any given office.

In the US, every single provider requires a department to handle literally dozens of different insurers, each with their own paperwork and requirements, and each of which is continually fighting back by contesting the claims. It's an enormous cost.

And the for-profit insurance companies provide another inefficiency by continually draining funds out of the system in the form of payments to shareholders.

It's a nightmare.

But the thing is, we can't just shut all that down and go to single-payer. It would mean throwing thousands of people out of work.

It's a bloated, useless bureaucracy, but the far right won't admit to that because it exists in the private sector, and they only complain about the public bureaucracy.

Still, it's the truth that we cannot just make the switch. It would be too disruptive.
 
Another negative jobs report, with downward revisions to employment. Haven't we had negative job growth since the stimulus was passed? Wouldn't that normally be considered a sign of failure?

Uh... the report I heard today was of thousands more jobs added to the public sector, continuing that trend since, I think, July.
 
Your saying that doesn't prove you're not a democrat, Piggy.

Ok, BAC, you've found me out: I'm a super-double-secret Democrat deep undercover.

Here's how I fool everyone....

I don't join the Democratic party 'cause that'd be a tipoff right there. And I never vote a straight Democratic ticket, or contribute to Democratic candidates or their PACs or proxies, or campaign for them.

To fool them even more, I openly advocate for the creation of a national mainstream conservative party. This really messes them up.

But just to be sure, I openly support McCain in two presidential elections.

But somehow, through your superior powers of perception, you've managed to pierce through my facade and discover that I'm really a Democrat.

Well done!
 
Someone who claims to be a Rockefeller Republican defending the likes of Barney Franks and Maxine Waters ... equating them to their GOP counterparts.

You obviously do not understand Rockefeller Republicans.

For us, a failure to demonize is not equivalent to advocating.
 
And yet you support Obama, when even his people are now beginning to admit they have created an unsustainable fiscal time bomb. Even Obama is saying that.

This is precisely what I'm saying, too.

You seem to have skipped the part where I mentioned that the current administration is scarily unable to muster the muscle to actually carry through on its "tough talk" about deficits.
 

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