Cont: The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VI

[Vixen]

I was actually going to mention something along those lines, but related to law rather than physics. For my accounting certificate, I had to take two courses in business law, which also included some general legal theory. I did well in these classes. I certainly know more about law than the average layman, but again by Vixen's logic, I'm also qualified to critique the legal opinions of expert lawyers.

That is nonsense. Business law and general legal theory would not be considered graduate level. Thus I doubt you could get onto a masters law degree based on an accounting certificate.

 

[zooterkin]

If you take up another course of study that is dependent on your previous grraduate qualifications then you are a postgraduate.

Are you really having this much difficulty with plain English?


No-one is disputing that you're a postgrad. What you aren't, based on what you have told is, is a psychology postgraduate.

 

[zooterkin]

That is nonsense. Business law and general legal theory would not be considered graduate level. Thus I doubt you could get onto a masters law degree based on an accounting certificate.

And again, you don't appear to be understanding the words that you're replying to.

 

[SpitfireIX]

If you take up another course of study that is dependent on your previous grraduate qualifications then you are a postgraduate.

I think you're trying to claim that I'm a mechanical engineering technology postgraduate, despite the fact that my MS is in industrial technology. As has been explained to you, that's not accurate.

 

[Vixen]

If their post graduate degree is in accounting not maths then yes. They are not maths postgrads, they are accounting postgrads, which is different.

That's nice. You're still not a psych postgrad.


Also nice. So what?

Yes, it does. Masters or Doctorate at any rate. It could be pure maths, applied maths, statistics...does not matter as long as it's maths. Accounting is not a mathematics degree. They would not be a maths postgrad.

Very few chartered accountants entrants are 'Accounting' graduates. Many are mathematics graduates. An 'accounting' graduate who wants to go into chartered accountancy might get an exemption from one or two lower level certificate exams but it is not an entry level breakthrough. 'Accounting' does not equate to Accountancy (which means knowing how to run an enterprise or an audit).

Anyway, you knew perfectly well what I meant when I said you were talking to a psychology postgrad.

 

[JayUtah]

You can be a postgraduate without having any masters degree. You could still be studying. Any postgraduate study is post graduate. I went into accountancy as a postgraduate. Whether you like it or not.

I didn't say you claimed to have a master's degree. I said you studied something other than psychology for your postgraduate education, so it's incorrect to say you were a "psychology postgraduate." You were an accounting postgraduate and a psychology graduate.

Kindly dispense with the snark. You've been caught once again inflating your credentials, a là, "I studied physics for twelve years." Rather than struggling to foist some new way in which we have to agree you were somehow correct, just admit that you misspoke, apologize to Mark Corrigan for the misleading rebuke, and move on.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

When you said a psychology postgrad, the assumption is that you had a post graduate degree in psychology, because that is what the term "psychology postgrad" means.

That you used the wrong term doesn't matter. You're not a psychology postgrad, you're a psychology graduate with a postgrad equivalent in accounting. Those are not the same thing.

 

[JayUtah]

Thus I doubt you could get onto a masters law degree based on an accounting certificate.

What is a "masters law degree?" Our law school offers a "Master of Legal Studies" degree, which is generally commensurate with an MBA. But the qualification is any bachelor's degree. It also offers the customary JD degree, also for which any bachelor's degree counts as the degree prerequisite.

 

[Steve]

You do know we can read the post you're replying to, don't you?

No-one is claiming you said you were a chartered psychologist. Stop lying.

What you said was

The strong implication being that your postgrad study was in the field of psychology. Now you're saying that was not the case? Why refer to postgraduate if your psychology training was only to degree level?

That is not a strong implication. It is a bald faced lie.

 

[Vixen]

I think you're trying to claim that I'm a mechanical engineering technology postgraduate, despite the fact that my MS is in industrial technology. As has been explained to you, that's not accurate.

It's simple. If your mechanical engineering technology graduate degree was entry level into MS in industrial technology then you are an engineering postgraduate.

I know plenty of people with a first degree in standard traditional subject but then their Masters is in something with all kinds of fancy names. It doesn't mean they were not postgraduates of their first degree if the masters follows on from their bachelors.

 

[JayUtah]

I think if someone tells you they are a maths postgraduate, it doesn't necessarilyy follow they are claiming they have a masters degree is in mathematics.

Straw man. The question is not whether you obtained a degree in the stated field. You claimed to be a "psychology postgraduate." If you say you are a postgraduate, that means you are engaged in a formal program of academic study beyond the bachelor's degree. If you name a field in conjunction with that, then that is the field associated with your study.

Mark Corrigan mentioned something pertaining to psychology and you tried to browbeat him into submission by claiming superior expertise in psychology, i.e., postgraduate study. As with all your previous false claims, there then followed a program of assiduous verbal gymnastics in which you tried to cobble together some minestrone of words and subordinate claims that somehow made your original statement technically true.

You did not study psychology as a postgraduate. No amount of humpty-dumptying lets you claim you were a "psychology postgraduate." You lied. You got caught lying. Again.

 

[Steve]

One thing you have to give Vixen full credit for. She can drag a thread off topic and keep it there for page after page.

And the mods who are often so anxious to infract, and even card, off topic posts play right along with it. A couple are even participating. Next time a poster is infracted for off topic a quick point to this thread should be more than adequate support for appeal.





(Bet this post gets infracted for off topic )

 

[Vixen]

I didn't say you claimed to have a master's degree. I said you studied something other than psychology for your postgraduate education, so it's incorrect to say you were a "psychology postgraduate." You were an accounting postgraduate and a psychology graduate.

Kindly dispense with the snark. You've been caught once again inflating your credentials, a là, "I studied physics for twelve years." Rather than struggling to foist some new way in which we have to agree you were somehow correct, just admit that you misspoke, apologize to Mark Corrigan for the misleading rebuke, and move on.

My first degree was directly relevant to getting into my two masters degree equivalents. Thus had I got in as an Economics graduate then it is quite truthful to say one is an Economics postgrad, as many chartered accountants do regard themselves as postgraduate economics students.

 

[phiwum]

False Memory is only part of the issue with eyewitness testimony.



Again though, you're claiming that we dismiss the claims of the eyewitnesses based solely on our own say so. That's not what we are doing at all. We are stating that if the eyewitness (or earwitness really) claims they heard an explosion, but that there is no physical evidence for an explosion then the earwitness is mistaken in their assessment of the cause of the noise they heard.



We aren't stating these people are wrong just because, we're claiming they are mistaken as to the cause of the noise they heard because it does not match the physical evidence, which must always take precedence over eye (or ear) witness testimony.



We aren't claiming they heard nothing, or are lying. We're claiming that they heard a noise, and are mistaken as to the cause of that noise.

Mind you, the list of summaries of witness testimonies provided by Vixen did not include any reports of explosions at all.

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[SpitfireIX]

That is nonsense. Business law and general legal theory would not be considered graduate level. Thus I doubt you could get onto a masters law degree based on an accounting certificate.

Apparently you didn't read what Jay wrote. First, in the US, there's no such thing as a "masters law degree." A law degree is a doctoral-level degree.

Second, the only educational requirement to enter law school is a bachelors degree, in any subject. (At least for a general law degree; as Jay mentioned, there are specific undergrad requirements for certain legal specialties.) No undergraduate courses in law are required. Therefore, any beginning law student will be assumed to have no professional legal knowledge. And I'm not clear on why you think that business law is not a proper subject for law school.

Additionally, a bachelors' level education in accounting would be a fine basis for a law student who planned to become a tax attorney; in fact, I once met a tax attorney who was also a CPA.

 

[phiwum]

My BSc(Hons) in Psychology was deemed sufficiently directly related to my chosen field for my professional accountancy body to exempt me from the entire certificate level of the professional qualification... The chartered accountancy course includes modules in leadership skills, motivation, change management, crisis management, reputation management, marketing, conflict resolution, negotiation, probability theory and decision trees, together with a strong element of statistics, plus economics.

So do you actually have a postgraduate degree of any kind?

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[JayUtah]

I know plenty of people with a first degree in standard traditional subject but then their Masters is in something with all kinds of fancy names. It doesn't mean they were not postgraduates of their first degree if the masters follows on from their bachelors.

It means exactly that.

If you obtain a bachelor's degree in subject A, you are an A graduate. If you pursue a master's degree in subject B, you are not an A postgraduate. You are a B postgraduate.

It's irrelevant whether B naturally follows in some way from A. It's irrelevant whether you eventually obtain that Master of B.

Again, if you're going to invoke academic terminology, use it correctly. Academia is one of the last bastions where these words have precise meanings that are adhered to and enforced. Claiming to be engaged in one type of study in one field when you're actually in a different type of study in a different field actually results in academic consequences. You don't get to redefine the words to save face, especially when the debate arose from you attempting to lord over others expertise you can't demonstrate.

 

[JayUtah]

My first degree was directly relevant to getting into my two masters degree equivalents.

It doesn't matter that someone thought a bachelor's degree in psychology was a suitable preparation for a further program of study in accounting. You were not a "psychology postgraduate." You were an accounting postgraduate. Your postgraduate study was in accounting, and you earned a certification in accounting that you proffer as equivalent to a master's degree.

 

[Vixen]

Mind you, the list of summaries of witness testimonies provided by Vixen did not include any reports of explosions at all.

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I am sure they do.

Quote:
- I was at a karaoke bar with a friend when I heard an unusual sound. I thought it sounded like an explosion. I left immediately. It was a matter of seconds or minutes to get out. That ship collapsed so quickly and no one came to help.
Altti Hakanpää and his friend tried to shout at people. The sight still troubles him.
Quote:
. Ulla Marianne Tenman - cabin 1098 - 30 years old

ibid

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" ~ Paul Simon The Boxer

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Like an. Not a.