Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 8

[Andy_Ross]

I saw that report but wasn't going to post until I saw more info. If they have a bridgehead and are able to reinforce it then it's a significant move.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I am in no position to dispute this, but I am surprised that the lend-lease organisation was able to gear up to that extent when the war in Russia only started in June that year.

I saw something on this recently. The British were willing to send a lot of their tanks to Russia in 1941 because they knew they'd soon be receiving plenty of Lend-Lease Shermans.

Additionally, the US had begun the process of ramping up production in mid-1940, after the fall of France, although FDR had to tread carefully until after the elections in November of that year.

And speaking of FDR, I've read that in 1941 his advisers were worried that he was Lend-Leasing so much materiel to the Allies that there wouldn't be enough left for the rapid expansion of the US armed forces then occurring.

 

[lobosrul5]

I saw something on this recently. The British were willing to send a lot of their tanks to Russia in 1941 because they knew they'd soon be receiving plenty of Lend-Lease Shermans.

Additionally, the US had begun the process of ramping up production in mid-1940, after the fall of France, although FDR had to tread carefully until after the elections in November of that year.

And speaking of FDR, I've read that in 1941 his advisers were worried that he was Lend-Leasing so much materiel to the Allies that there wouldn't be enough left for the rapid expansion of the US armed forces then occurring.

Interesting... in 1941 the Sherman hadn't even entered production, the first prototype was completed in Sept '41. We were producing Lees/Grants... which I always though of as basically the worst tank ever. After watching some Chieftan and Tank Museum videos it actually wasn't too terrible for 1941/2.

Looking at lend-lease numbers of British tanks to the USSR, not many got to the front until very late 1941, and they were pretty damned inadequate models to take on Pz3's and 4's.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Sky News reports that Russia says it's going to move forces to its western borders to counter the growing threat from NATO forces massing there.

 

[lobosrul5]

Ooops wrong thread.

ETA: but instead of wasting this post... lol what. What is Russia going to move to "counter a NATO" threat?! 2 companies of mobiks with shovels?

 

[jimbob]

Belarus has begun military exercises near its border with Poland and Lithuania.
Both countries have moved forces to the border regions and are expecting provocations. NATO forces in the Forward Presence Battalions are also on increased readiness.

Von Clausewitz has little use for feints, but I think even he would agree that if you're going to make a feint, it should at least draw away some of the forces you are actually fighting, instead of activating fresh forces from an as-yet latent enemy.

Sky News reports that Russia says it's going to move forces to its western borders to counter the growing threat from NATO forces massing there.

With the addition that one really shouldn't tie up more of your forces than the enemy.

I'm feeling a kind of satisfaction in noticing the thread's gone to part 8 and Ukraine is still kicking.

Yup

Perhaps, in addition to sending drones to the Ukraine, we should make an exception to sanctions and sell more cigarettes to Russia. Finally, a chance for Big Tobacco to do something good for the world!

Nice one

 

[jimbob]

Belarus has begun military exercises near its border with Poland and Lithuania.
Both countries have moved forces to the border regions and are expecting provocations. NATO forces in the Forward Presence Battalions are also on increased readiness.

Interesting take on this.



Wagner being there is a way to keep it away from advancing on Moscow.

 

[dudalb]

SO far lost of rhetoric from Putin about the West, but little in the way of action.

 

[dudalb]

Ooops wrong thread.

ETA: but instead of wasting this post... lol what. What is Russia going to move to "counter a NATO" threat?! 2 companies of mobiks with shovels?

That is his problem; he sort of out of symbolic gestures;anything he does would be a major escalation.
And,yes, Wagner attacking a Nato member would be a major escalation.

 

[The Don]

Sky News reports that Russia says it's going to move forces to its western borders to counter the growing threat from NATO forces massing there.

I wonder what forces these would be.

I thought that the Russian Army was already completely overstretched in Ukraine.

 

[quadraginta]

I wonder what forces these would be.

I thought that the Russian Army was already completely overstretched in Ukraine.

They probably have women, children, and the elderly they haven't mobilized ... yet.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

It's probably going to be mobiks, or the builder units where all the useless troops get sidelined to.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

They probably have women, children, and the elderly they haven't mobilized ... yet.

Or, if Putin *really* gets desperate, Russians from the major cities with actual friends.

 

[kookbreaker]

Ooops wrong thread.

ETA: but instead of wasting this post... lol what. What is Russia going to move to "counter a NATO" threat?! 2 companies of mobiks with shovels?

They might have farm tractors!*




* This joke is already old.

 

[dudalb]

Finland is basically strenghting it's border protection on the Russian Border. They are taking no chances.

 

[Doubt]

Interesting... in 1941 the Sherman hadn't even entered production, the first prototype was completed in Sept '41. We were producing Lees/Grants... which I always though of as basically the worst tank ever. After watching some Chieftan and Tank Museum videos it actually wasn't too terrible for 1941/2.

Looking at lend-lease numbers of British tanks to the USSR, not many got to the front until very late 1941, and they were pretty damned inadequate models to take on Pz3's and 4's.

The Sherman got stuck on the drawing board because the army wanted a cast turret and the technology had not caught up to the demand for the bigger turret yet. An earlier Sherman would have had a lot of the same assembly issues as the Grant/Lee tanks. Bolts instead of welds.

 

[Doubt]

The Russian Federation has lost at least half of its elite airborne forces who were sent to war in Ukraine in 2022.
According to UK MOD post on twitter.
The number is at least 15,000 Russian paratroopers.

Twitter thread here
https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1688064194665455616?t=ic6Xltb2MHLirTzEIh9Jzw&s=19

Well, that explains why they have not been seen much since the initial assault. Of course, given how long the war has taken, they could have started a serious rebuilding effort if they were not just throwing poorly trained conscripts into the fight.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

It's probably going to be mobiks, or the builder units where all the useless troops get sidelined to.

Bet you it's going to be the batallions made up of politicians' and oligarchs' sons that used be stationed around Belgorod and Novorossiysk up until a few months ago.

 

[lobosrul5]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...city-planning-evacuation-as-russians-approach

Ukraine has placed a mandatory evacuation order to all civilians in Kharkiv Oblast near Kupiansk.

The Russians have created an offensive group consisting of eight "Storm-Z assault units" to take Kupiansk, Colonel-General Oleksandr Syrskyi, Commander of the Ground Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, told Ukrainska Pravda Wednesday.

Internet speculation is that Ukraine will allow Russia to take some ground... so they can hit them out in the open with cluster munitions.

 

[theprestige]

Engage the enemy in a decisive battle, at a time and place of your choosing. What's interesting is that both sides kind of have to play along. Is Moscow committing its main strength in Kupiansk? If so, is it because Ukraine's shaping operations have forced Moscow to make a move that gives Ukraine the upper hand in the ensuing contest? Or is Moscow's move intended to force Ukraine into a battle on terms more convenient to the invader?