The Roe Countdown

[Delphic Oracle]

You don't think the idea that if Roe gets overturned, that Indian Reservations might become a massive hub for aborting non-reservation babies, to be at least a little creepy sounding?

I do. I just can't imagine it happening. Then again, I can't imagine Roe being overturned, either.

I think men controlling women's health care decisions is creepy sounding.

I don't have to imagine it happening.

 

[Warp12]

I think men controlling women's health care decisions is creepy sounding.

Meh. The fetus is half "owned" by the father (or however one would say it), imo. That is creepy sounding, too.

It is all creepy when it comes to abortion.

 

[EaglePuncher]

You don't think the idea that if Roe gets overturned, that Indian Reservations might become a massive hub for aborting non-reservation babies, to be at least a little creepy sounding?

No, why? Why don't you think about all the illegal immigrant women who will save the white race from dying by aborting their child?

I do. I just can't imagine it happening.

Lean back and watch the show.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Meh. The fetus is half-owned by the father, imo. That is creepy sounding, too.

It is all creepy when it comes to abortion.

Own?

A person?

Edited by xjx388: 

<SNIP>
Rule 0; Rule 12

 

[bruto]

I don't agree that it would be an unintended consequence at all.

I don't think they're unintended by the fascists passing the bills, but I think they probably are for the people in general.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Well, I guess that is one way for Indians to get back at the white man. Kill them in the womb when nobody else will? Kind of creepy implications to that, tbh.

Also, is abortion law more relaxed or more stringent on reservations than what we see now, generally? Like, what would be their motivation to become a massive abortion hub?

The idea that you think this is somehow about white people says a lot about your position.

 

[bruto]

Well, I guess that is one way for Indians to get back at the white man. Kill them in the womb when nobody else will? Kind of creepy implications to that, tbh.

Also, is abortion law more relaxed or more stringent on reservations than what we see now, generally? Like, what would be their motivation to become a massive abortion hub?

As Bob the Coward points out, your assumption that this would be about white people seems a bit odd, as the percentage of abortions to pregnancies is lowest among whites, highest among blacks. Of course because white people's majority is greater than that discrepancy, the majority of abortions might still be among whites, but far from proportional.

I am guessing, "massive abortion hub" might be a little hyperbolic, but I can imagine a couple of motivations. One might be simply a good source of income. To be the sole available provider of anything is likely to be profitable. Another might be to attract more medical personnel and facilities to the reservation and enhance the overall health care there.

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Meh. The fetus is half "owned" by the father (or however one would say it), imo. That is creepy sounding, too.

It is all creepy when it comes to abortion.

The fetus is part of the woman's body, which no one "owns."

Whatever power parents have over their children after birth, it doesn't include ownership.

The more you write, the more I learn about how you really think. It's not pleasant.

 

[Warp12]

I am guessing, "massive abortion hub" might be a little hyperbolic, but I can imagine a couple of motivations. One might be simply a good source of income. To be the sole available provider of anything is likely to be profitable.

That's what we all want to see...a booming cash business on Indian Reservations...from exterminating the unborn. Seems noble enough.

Of course most liberals will blame the Republicans for such a thing. After all, who could blame the Indians for wanting to make a buck?

I guess the moneymaking opportunities are one silver lining to the Roe cloud.

 

[bruto]

That's what we all want to see...a booming cash business on Indian Reservations...from exterminating the unborn. Seems noble enough.

Of course most liberals will blame the Republicans for such a thing. After all, who could blame the Indians for wanting to make a buck?

I guess the moneymaking opportunities are one silver lining to the Roe cloud.

And they'd be right too. The blame for creating a situation goes to those who create it. If a law doesn't work, who else's fault is it? If burning books enriches the printers of new ones, it's not the printers' fault.

We don't even know of course if and how Indian reservations might pick up the abortion slack, and how possible it would be. But one must presume that those who provide abortions believe in the right to do so.

You could substitute "Canadians" for "Indians," and say the same thing. If you ban something and everyone not immediately subject to it picks up the slack to provide it, a redistribution of revenue is inevitable, but the underlying reason is that the argument behind the ban has failed.

 

[mumblethrax]

I guess the moneymaking opportunities are one silver lining to the Roe cloud.

Yes, Republicans are doing a good job of creating an abortion industry.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

That's what we all want to see...a booming cash business on Indian Reservations...from exterminating the unborn. Seems noble enough.

Of course most liberals will blame the Republicans for such a thing. After all, who could blame the Indians for wanting to make a buck?

I guess the moneymaking opportunities are one silver lining to the Roe cloud.

Let see..

You could stop abortions by
1: Ensuring there is good, mandatory sexual education in high school (and home school systems) so everyone knows how pregnancies occur and can be managed to only happen when you want to.
2: Ensuring everone form ages 15+ or so has access to free and if wanted anonymously distributed contraceptives to severely limit unwanted pregnancies.
3: Ensuring there is a good welfare system to support those mothers that do get pregnant without their intent so a child does not become a lifetime sentence to poverty for those without a family support system.
4: Ensuring a good nationalised healthcare system so even poor expectant mothers can afford healthcare for themselves and their prospective children.
5: Ensuring there is a good public school system where the money is evenly distributed rather than focused in the rich neighborhoods so prospective new mothers know their child will have a good shot at life regardless of where it is born or who their parent are.

Each of these are policies the Republican party actively opposes. And you yourself have stated to be against option 5 as that might mean the children of illegal immigrants might be educated.

So yes, it IS the Republican party that creates a situation where many prospective mothers see abortion as the only option. Since that won't change, the amount of abortions won't change either. But at least you'll put more people in prison for being desperate or willing to help the desperate.

I find your bleating about the 'killing of poor fetuses' extremely hypocritical given your support for the system that creates the very situation.

 

[Blank]

Look at the bright side.

With abortions being illegal on the premises that people are obligated to save a life with extreme discomfort and even possible danger to themselves - shouldnt the logical expansion of this make stuff like bone marrow donation (on your own expense) mandatory for ppl? I mean lives that this procedure would save don't even have any "human or not?" ambiquity.

Or am I missing something.. Like lack of internal logic or humanity of these pro-lifers?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Look at the bright side.



With abortions being illegal on the premises that people are obligated to save a life with extreme discomfort and even possible danger to themselves - shouldnt the logical expansion of this make stuff like bone marrow donation (on your own expense) mandatory for ppl? I mean lives that this procedure would save don't even have any "human or not?" ambiquity.



Or am I missing something.. Like lack of internal logic or humanity of these pro-lifers?

Yes, you see they believe themselves immune to the concerns of others. But something that might inconvenience them or merely run counter to their preferences is anathema.

It is entirely consistent in that sense.

 

[theprestige]

Let see..

You could stop abortions by
1: Ensuring there is good, mandatory sexual education in high school (and home school systems) so everyone knows how pregnancies occur and can be managed to only happen when you want to.

Do you happen to have any data on the number of abortions performed every year, on patients who did not understand how they got pregnant?

 

[gnome]

Do you happen to have any data on the number of abortions performed every year, on patients who did not understand how they got pregnant?

Probably nothing that specific. But there is solid evidence that unwanted pregnancies drop significantly where comprehensive sex education is taught, with associated drop in abortions.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Do you happen to have any data on the number of abortions performed every year, on patients who did not understand how they got pregnant?

Not the numbers, because I do not live in the approaching theocracy called the US.
But if you're interested I suggest you compare abortion rates and teen pregnancies in the Netherlands, with by US standards abortions on demand and horribly socialist healthcare and sex education vs Texas or some other conservative stronghold.

 

[Paul2]

Look at the bright side.

With abortions being illegal on the premises that people are obligated to save a life with extreme discomfort and even possible danger to themselves - shouldnt the logical expansion of this make stuff like bone marrow donation (on your own expense) mandatory for ppl? I mean lives that this procedure would save don't even have any "human or not?" ambiquity.

Or am I missing something.. Like lack of internal logic or humanity of these pro-lifers?

It's the trolley problem, in part. Lack of action (not donating bone marrow) is seen as more morally acceptable than taking an action (getting an abortion).

 

[Bob001]

Let see..

1: Ensuring there is good, mandatory sexual education in high school (and home school systems) so everyone knows how pregnancies occur and can be managed to only happen when you want to......

A certain percentage of pregnancies are the result of sex that did not happen when it was wanted.

 

[Bob001]

Another doctor weighs in:

The dangers that a patient faces, the treatment options we can consider, the risks she may be willing to take—all of these evolve over the nine months of a pregnancy. The only people who understand this better than obstetricians do are our pregnant patients themselves, who count every passing moment in their bodies.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...urn-high-risk-pregnancy-late-abortion/629921/