The Roe Countdown

[dudalb]

Being "not a pacifist" is not the same as being all gung-ho for a civil war which is surely a situation that is fairly far off unless some people are determined to make a go of it.

The point that you seem to be missing is that most people would argue a civil war is a pretty disastrous outcome. Yet it was you wagging your finger at others for being too negative...



The idea that the USA faces a choice of extreme tyranny or civil war is, in most people's books, tantamount to being as pessimistic and downbeat as possible.

The only way you can escape the charge you make of others is to suggest that civil war is not really so bad.

I never said that was the choice. But is a possibility.
I just don't think a dictatorship is going to be established peaceflly in the US if it can be done at all.
I think lots of things could happen. I think that putting over a dictatorship on the US is not as easy as some people think. I think there is a lot of heated rhetoric and hyperbole here.
And, let's face it, some people love to take the darkest possible view of events At times I wonder if it's not an sort of a an adult version of teen age angst where going around with as dark a view of things as possible is "Hip and cool".

 

[Delphic Oracle]

It's better then just caving in and accepting a dictatorship.



Of course I am not a pacifist, and don't think that war is always the worst option....

Who has suggested caving in and accepting a dictatorship?

 

[dudalb]

Who has suggested caving in and accepting a dictatorship?

A couple of people seem to think it can be done easily. I won't name names, but they are not hard to find.

 

[angrysoba]

I never said that was the choice. But is a possibility.
I just don't think a dictatorship is going to be established peaceflly in the US if it can be done at all.
I think lots of things could happen. I think that putting over a dictatorship on the US is not as easy as some people think. I think there is a lot of heated rhetoric and hyperbole here.
And, let's face it, some people love to take the darkest possible view of events At times I wonder if it's not an sort of a an adult version of teen age angst where going around with as dark a view of things as possible is "Hip and cool".

YOU are the one making the dark predictions!

Do you not see that?

YOU are the one making the choice between civil war and dictatorship.

 

[dudalb]

YOU are the one making the dark predictions!

Do you not see that?

YOU are the one making the choice between civil war and dictatorship.

So you are just ignoring the "US is going fascist is inevitable" posters here?

 

[angrysoba]

So you are just ignoring the "US is going fascist is inevitable" posters here?

No. I’m talking to one right now.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Of course you know that rape and incest cases are a very tiny sliver of the annual number of total abortions. We don't need to use an outlier to justify why outlawing abortion is not a good idea; it just weakens the overall case.

So the **** what? Are you claiming said "tiny sliver" are collateral damage, not worth considering or even mentioning?

And besides, that isn't really the main focus, is it? The liberals don't want Roe overturned because they have worked so hard to expand and protect these freedoms, and their constituents are not going to smile upon them for losing that battle.

You really have it wrong here. I am a constituent, not a legislator. Your assertion about politicians doesn't have jack to do with my concerns.

In fact your post fits the pattern: whatever the GOP claims is true about the Democrats is really a comment about themselves. Apparently they believe since all they give a **** about are votes, not principles, that must be true for the other party as well.

I see a bunch of religious zealots in the minority who since Jerry Falwell have been pushing to make their religion part of the US law.

Separation of church and state is one of my principles. Medical decisions including the choice to have or not have an abortion should be between the provider and the patient. Legislators should not be practicing medicine without a license. Those are also my principles. The fetus, until viable outside the womb, is part of the woman's body, not an individual person.

Pregnancy is a physically dangerous time for a woman, especially a young girl or teen. It's ignorant to claim adoption is the simple solution. Not only is that absurdly naive, not all babies are even adoptable.

 

[Warp12]

So the **** what? Are you claiming said "tiny sliver" are collateral damage, not worth considering or even mentioning?

In practical terms that drive large, sweeping policy? Yeah, they don't mean jack. Better to focus on the bigger picture and how it impacts the masses. Making a big deal about rape and incest victims is a bit disingenuous, because even if those were legislated exceptions to an abortion ban, that would not be considered adequate. Not by a long shot.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Breyer's retirement announcement was conditional on a replacement being announced. There's no reason RGB couldn't have made a similar contingent retirement announcement.

There's no way to spin RGB's decision. It was bad, it was incredibly short sighted, and it was hers unilaterally to make. 2013 was the last good opportunity to her to step down and have a liberal replace her, and she decided against it.

She undermined her entire life's work by making this decision. This disastrous decision will be the most important element of her legacy, all her life's work sabotaged by her own foolishness.

Agreed, sadly.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

It's pretty wild that the conservatives have finally realized a multi-decade political project (against all odds) and all they can do is complain about somebody didn't follow the clubhouse rules when leaking this decision.

These ghouls will never be happy. They're snatching away the rights of millions of people and they can't help but cry about how they're the real victims because someone tattled.

No matter how bad things get and how much they get their way, it will never be enough.

Persuasive post.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

McConnell lamented the leak "violated the SCOTUS' right to privacy". I doubt he heard the irony in his word choice.

 

[Norman Alexander]

In practical terms that drive large, sweeping policy? Yeah, they don't mean jack. Better to focus on the bigger picture and how it impacts the masses. Making a big deal about rape and incest victims is a bit disingenuous, because even if those were legislated exceptions to an abortion ban, that would not be considered adequate. Not by a long shot.

I guess it will take only one extraordinarily painful and protracted death due to enforced ectopic pregnancy to change your mind? OK, two deaths? Three? Gimme a number.

 

[Norman Alexander]

McConnell lamented the leak "violated the SCOTUS' right to privacy". I doubt he heard the irony in his word choice.

**** him.

 

[Shalamar]

I guess it will take only one extraordinarily painful and protracted death due to enforced ectopic pregnancy to change your mind? OK, two deaths? Three? Gimme a number.

To some, Women (aka: 'Split-Tails') aren't really people, and thus don't matter if a few are lost.

 

[bruto]

In practical terms that drive large, sweeping policy? Yeah, they don't mean jack. Better to focus on the bigger picture and how it impacts the masses. Making a big deal about rape and incest victims is a bit disingenuous, because even if those were legislated exceptions to an abortion ban, that would not be considered adequate. Not by a long shot.

I think there's a fundamental, basic, important, unequivocal difference that you do not, but I'll restate it anyway.

You speak of what impacts the masses. But what you are talking about is what people feel and believe, not what they do.

Allowing abortion does not obligate anyone to have an abortion. The only "masses" impacted are the unborn. Not a single person walking the earth is obligated to have an abortion. Nobody who opposes it must do it.

Outlawing abortion does obligate everyone. It is a law exclusively of obligation. Every single pregnant person within the scope of that law is obligated. Everybody who opposes it must do it.

Even if you think it's worth it, and even if you're right, you need to keep that fundamental difference in mind when you're thinking about the issue and arguing it. The two sides in this are not two sides of the same coin.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

How many innocent people need to get executed before you become anti Death Penalty?
I think I know Warp's answer....

 

[angrysoba]

In practical terms that drive large, sweeping policy? Yeah, they don't mean jack. Better to focus on the bigger picture and how it impacts the masses. Making a big deal about rape and incest victims is a bit disingenuous, because even if those were legislated exceptions to an abortion ban, that would not be considered adequate. Not by a long shot.

Here are some figures:

Recent estimates suggest that rape conception happens between 25,000 and 32,000 times each year in the U.S. In a 1996 three-year longitudinal study of 4,000 American women, physician Melisa Holmes estimated from data from her study that forced sexual intercourse causes over 32,000 pregnancies in the United States each year.

That is a LOT!

 

[smartcooky]

And you seem to get great joy out of what you see as the coming collapse of the US?
Just don't write the US off so quickly. A lot of people have made that mistake.

I don't.

It actually scares the bejeus out of me, because right-wing bat-crap crazy diseases like anti-vax, anti-mask, anti-LGBT, anti-abortion, fascism and racism spread easily. It has already spread to here and was very evident when the so-called peaceful anti-mandate protestors stood shoulder to shoulder with fascists, and repeat their talking points.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

So, what's next on the agenda for the GOP?

I know, it's clear that most abortions are unwanted teen pregnancies.
And since men can't help themselves when seduced by these wanton women, perhaps it's best if there was a law forbidden men and women attending the same schools?
And if that doesn't work, maybe forbid women from going to schools at all?

I pity at least 50% of the population of the US for the way it's sliding towards the ISIS mentality towards women.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

So, what's next on the agenda for the GOP?

I know, it's clear that most abortions are unwanted teen pregnancies.
And since men can't help themselves when seduced by these wanton women, perhaps it's best if there was a law forbidden men and women attending the same schools?
And if that doesn't work, maybe forbid women from going to schools at all?

I pity at least 50% of the population of the US for the way it's sliding towards the ISIS mentality towards women.

Chevron Deference.

Now that the Republicans control the Courts, they will want to make sure that they can tell the agencies under a Democrat President what they can and cannot do.