The Republicans really do have alternatives. Really.

Republicans propose a simple and fair tax code with a marginal tax rate for income up to $100,000 of 10% and 25% for any income thereafter, with a generous standard deduction and personal exemption.​

For some reason, though, they completely forgot to do this while they were in power. Oopsie.

I can just picture Bush turning the lights out in the Oval Office ... and then he slaps his forehead ... "Damn. I knew there was something else I meant to do ..."
 
Alt+F4 said:
black blob, aka the killer ink blot :)
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Black blob - yes. I typoed - thanks!

Also, I think the reason we are hearing all this 'I hope he fails' from some segments, is because that is the only way left for the extremist republicans to get back in power: by a big failure, so they can parade under the 'I told you so' banner. Without such a disaster, the Rush part of the party is done for, and the new republican party, the one which really does represent a large swatch of the public, can emerge.

So: successful policies = stronger country = strong democratic party = new and healthier republican party. It seems the only reason to hope against this, is for a meme's survival.
 
mhaze said:
So you find this amusing, eh?
Instead of taxing all energy users with a new national energy tax that will cost up to $3,128 per household, Republicans want energy independence with increased development of all our natural resources, including renewable energy sources, such as wind and solar.​
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Yes, their weasel words are most amusing.

And this?
Ends the Bailouts and Reforms the Financial System
Instead of nationalizing our financial system and heaping trillions of dollars of debt on future generations, Republicans want to protect taxpayers and provide a transparent recovery process that does not favor thse that have made unsound business decisions.
​
Why?
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And that is even more amusing.

Again, as with their tax plan, if they wanted to let the global economy crash and burn, this is something that they could have achieved while they were in power. Instead, the Bush administration (R) responded to the crisis with a plan that involved, how shall I put this: "nationalizing our financial system and heaping trillions of dollars of debt on future generations". This was so important that the Republican candidate for President announced that he was "suspending his campaign" to "race back to Washington" to make sure that it passed.

But now that the Republicans have the luxury of opposition, suddenly they all discover that voting "no" to every effort to contain the crisis is the True Path Of Republicanism.

"Amusing" is just too weak a word to describe how laughable their antics actually are.
 
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if they atleast would have Nationalized it, but they didnt, they just Nationalized the debt and risk.
 
mhaze said:
So you find this amusing, eh?
Instead of taxing all energy users with a new national energy tax that will cost up to $3,128 per household, Republicans want energy independence with increased development of all our natural resources, including renewable energy sources, such as wind and solar.
​
And this?
Ends the Bailouts and Reforms the Financial System
Instead of nationalizing our financial system and heaping trillions of dollars of debt on future generations, Republicans want to protect taxpayers and provide a transparent recovery process that does not favor thse that have made unsound business decisions.
​
Why?
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It's hilarious because you need Obama style spending to actually accomplish the energy goals.
 
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Denver said:
Did you ever see the Star Trek episode with that lack blob that kills Natasha Yar? They described it as the evil, loathsome part of some race that had distilled it from themselves and then cast it off and fled from it.

I think that is what is happening in the republican party, either by design or just a meme survival mechanism. This 'skin' of the party is formed by such luminaries as Russ Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and their fans. More and more individuals will clearly polarize themselves to follow this side. The people left, the more level-headed non-extremists, will form the core of the new party, which I think will then again become relevant and successful at challenging the democratic party. Until then, the government will continue to remain in the hands of the democrats.
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Right now I don't see these luminaries standing up. I thought at one time that Jindal might have been one of them but that was a mistake. If they are going to reform it's going to take a while or a massive change of policies/ideas in general.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
Ah, yes, how elitist to use economic disincentives to encourage private, free market development of carbon reducing practices. Doesn't matter how effective it would be, it is just so elitist it doesn't matter.
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Do you have any idea how many businesses will go off-shore under this cap and trade fiasco? Assuming you pay your own bills do you have any idea how much your heating and electric bills are going to go up or how much more you will pay at the pump? I have a feeling that there are few US citizens on this board that actually pay the taxes for all of Obama's hare-brained ideas and the ones that don't live here are delighted that the American taxpayer is taking it in the shorts.
 
Texas said:
Do you have any idea how many businesses will go off-shore under this cap and trade fiasco? Assuming you pay your own bills do you have any idea how much your heating and electric bills are going to go up or how much more you will pay at the pump?
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And do you have any actual figures, or is it easier to just ask rhetorical questions?
 
Dr Adequate said:
And do you have any actual figures, or is it easier to just ask rhetorical questions?
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From his own mouth you can hear the audio here:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kerry-picket/2008/11/02/obama-energy-prices-will-skyrocket

When I was asked earlier about the issue of coal…under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket…even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad, because I’m capping greenhouse gasses, coal power plants, natural gas…you name it…whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retro-fit their operations.
That will cost money…they will pass that money on to the consumers. You can already see what the arguments are going to be during the general election. People will say Obama and Al Gore …these folks...they're going to destroy the economy.
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Texas said:
Do you have any idea how many businesses will go off-shore under this cap and trade fiasco? Assuming you pay your own bills do you have any idea how much your heating and electric bills are going to go up or how much more you will pay at the pump? I have a feeling that there are few US citizens on this board that actually pay the taxes for all of Obama's hare-brained ideas and the ones that don't live here are delighted that the American taxpayer is taking it in the shorts.
Click to expand...

And do you realize the cost of inaction will be greater? And not just qualitatively, economically as well.

(I could get you studies, University of Maryland had a good one, I believe. As did a report by HM Treasury.)
 
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Tsukasa Buddha said:
And do you realize the cost of inaction will be greater? And not just qualitatively, economically as well.
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I just read your profile that says you are a student. Let's talk when you have a few years of paying taxes under your belt.
 
Texas said:
I just read your profile that says you are a student. Let's talk when you have a few years of paying taxes under your belt.
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God dammit, first dudalb and now you. Why does my being a student make me wrong?! Waaaaaahhh...

Also, ad hominem, lol stfu.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
And do you realize the cost of inaction will be greater? And not just qualitatively, economically as well.

(I could get you studies, University of Maryland had a good one, I believe. As did a report by HM Treasury.)
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No, you can't win this argument with studies. Check Nordhaus, Lombert. Check entry level arguments againgt Stern. Then let me know how you feel about the numerical basis of the "cost of inaction is higher".

RE my prior comment, "elitist" I think is the right word, because blue collar Democrats will vote with their pocket book that their elite urban counterparts would take money from.
 
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Texas said:
I just read your profile that says you are a student. Let's talk when you have a few years of paying taxes under your belt.
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Oh look, an actual ad hom. We don't get many specimens of this quality nowadays. Most of the ones we've gotten lately get handwaved away by "I wasn't dismissing your argument because you're an idiot, I was just insulting you."

This, my erstwhile examiners of the formations fallacious, is a textbook example in as pristine condition as one could hope for.

Note that the argument is indeed addressed, through the reference to taxes, but it is dismissed through the assumption that Tsukasa is a student and therefore should not be listened to.

Students are often (erroneously) perceived as not working/not paying taxes and this (erroneous) assumption is used to dismiss Tsukasa's argument.

Note how it does not point out any flaw in Tsukasa's logic. Pay close attention to the lack of objections to any assumption, proposition or argument. Observe how the only argument raised is the identity or character of the person making the argument.

An argument against the man. Ad Hominem
 
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