Yes, Saddam Hussein did a good job of concealing his Zionism. However he didn't come out of the closet at the agreed time. Force of habit and fear made him stick to his usual public persona. Saddam Hussein was a Zionist, so it would have been inappropriate for him to continue to be the leader of Iraq.
I don't know, but I suspect that the President of the USA doesn't know his left toes from his right thumb.Muslim said:Then why didn't the USA invade Israel first?
George Bush's advisors probably think that Zionism is an appropriate policy for Israel.
Maybe, in the minds of the Bush advisors, "rabbi" is a good career option. What about doctor, dentist, accountant, physicist, or plumber? Don't ask me. Ask them.
I think you need to play a game of tennis or chess or something. Why would the USA invade an ally?Skeptic said:
I saw it. Have you ever seen the following website?Skeptic said:
http://www.felionsjoint.com/
Muslim said:
Muslim said:
I bet that you would win that bet.
Keep in mind that this thread is about the real reason for the war in Iraq. If you want to discuss WMDs in Israel, then I respectfully suggest that you start a thread on that topic.
Remember to follow the book, rather than a yeller's yells about how the yeller wants you to live your life.
Dorian Gray
Hypocrisy Detector
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2002
- Messages
- 20,366
There must be a good reason you didn't name yourself 'the BIG idea', old yeller.
Oil is the reason for the Iraq invasion. The Bush administration wants to ensure a supply of it, because the U.S. has insufficient other energy resources on line. There are various ways to further this aim, and invading Iraq looked like one of them to the Bush administration. The desert states have long been of interest to this country only insofar as they produce oil for us. Now, of course, we're also interested in parrying whatever terrorist threats they pose.
Corwyn
Unregistered
C
well
if we're going down this line - war for oil.
Then it isn't really as simple as that.
Wubya dosn't care about the oil supply per say.
What he cares about is the oil contracts for his buddies
like Chenney and CO and all the other CEOs and CFOs he is in bed with.
The reasom for the invasion is to topple Saddam so that the oil contracts/deals he had going with Russia, France and Germany
would come to an end.
The use companies couldn't break in because they couldn't offer any more/bigger deals to Saddam then he already had with
the Russians, UN, France ETC.
So the ONLY way the US companies were going to get a piece of that pie was to topple Saddam.
NOW that we're in there all of the sudden Halley Burton (sp) got all the SAM sweetheart deals the Russian and the French had.
PRESTO - The real reason for the war and the real reason for
Russian, French and German reluctance to invade and continue the status quo.
When are you people going to realize that Goverment is NOT the tool of the people but the tool of the large INTERNATIONAL corporations!
Corwyn
PS Just because I am paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after me! Besides, name me any OTHER reason that has fewer fualts than this!
if we're going down this line - war for oil.
Then it isn't really as simple as that.
Wubya dosn't care about the oil supply per say.
What he cares about is the oil contracts for his buddies
like Chenney and CO and all the other CEOs and CFOs he is in bed with.
The reasom for the invasion is to topple Saddam so that the oil contracts/deals he had going with Russia, France and Germany
would come to an end.
The use companies couldn't break in because they couldn't offer any more/bigger deals to Saddam then he already had with
the Russians, UN, France ETC.
So the ONLY way the US companies were going to get a piece of that pie was to topple Saddam.
NOW that we're in there all of the sudden Halley Burton (sp) got all the SAM sweetheart deals the Russian and the French had.
PRESTO - The real reason for the war and the real reason for
Russian, French and German reluctance to invade and continue the status quo.
When are you people going to realize that Goverment is NOT the tool of the people but the tool of the large INTERNATIONAL corporations!
Corwyn
PS Just because I am paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after me! Besides, name me any OTHER reason that has fewer fualts than this!
specious_reasons
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2002
- Messages
- 1,124
Quite honestly, people like Rikzilla and corplinx provide some good reasons for the war in Iraq, and they probably line up quite well with why the Bush admin went to war.
However, the GWB and co. sold the war on WMD, suggesting links between 9/11 and Iraq, and strongly suggesting links between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
I'm somewhat neutral about whether or not we should have invaded Iraq, but I'm hopping mad about what I was told.
However, the GWB and co. sold the war on WMD, suggesting links between 9/11 and Iraq, and strongly suggesting links between Al Qaeda and Iraq.
I'm somewhat neutral about whether or not we should have invaded Iraq, but I'm hopping mad about what I was told.
Of course you are hopping mad. Maybe that's because you don't want to get dirt on your socks. So stop banging your shoe against the table. Put your shoe back on your foot.specious_reasons said:
Have you heard of the original U2? Have you heard of Francis Gary Powers, the spy who fell from the sky? Did you hear terrible American lie: "we not spy on fuzzy wuzzy bear"?
Okay, now let's call it a truce or I will get on my red phone and call Bugs Bunny.
specious_reasons
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2002
- Messages
- 1,124
I'm just not getting the joke.
The US attacked Iraq to protect the interests of the US and to tell the rest of the world, "Don't f*&# with us."
Couple 9/11 with the belief that WMDs existed, a wily dictator, and the US putting itself in a position where it can't back down from evil, and you got yourself a war.
Call me naive but I don't think we're there because of oil, rebuidling contracts or some religious crusade against Muslims.
Take away 9/11 and the US is *maybe* still interested in working the UN to do something about Saddam's WMD.
Couple 9/11 with the belief that WMDs existed, a wily dictator, and the US putting itself in a position where it can't back down from evil, and you got yourself a war.
Call me naive but I don't think we're there because of oil, rebuidling contracts or some religious crusade against Muslims.
Take away 9/11 and the US is *maybe* still interested in working the UN to do something about Saddam's WMD.
RandFan
Mormon Atheist
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Messages
- 60,135
Re: well
The first flaw in your argument is assuming that there could only be a single over riding reason to invade. In fact it is likely that there were many reasons. It is arguable that if oil and making money were the only reasons, then Bush could have cut a deal with Saddam that would have made his friends even more money without any political risk.
There are other valid reasons like democracy in the middle east and the ouster of a dictator. And there are plausible reasons like revenge and or settling a score.
If your reason is the one that best fits your world view then it is unlikely you will consider any other reasons even if there is ample evidence to support them. Decisions based on diverse reasons don't fit neatly into conspiracy theories.
Well, we have debated this issue at length but I guess this is one of those issues that isn't going to go away.Corwyn said:
The first flaw in your argument is assuming that there could only be a single over riding reason to invade. In fact it is likely that there were many reasons. It is arguable that if oil and making money were the only reasons, then Bush could have cut a deal with Saddam that would have made his friends even more money without any political risk.
There are other valid reasons like democracy in the middle east and the ouster of a dictator. And there are plausible reasons like revenge and or settling a score.
If your reason is the one that best fits your world view then it is unlikely you will consider any other reasons even if there is ample evidence to support them. Decisions based on diverse reasons don't fit neatly into conspiracy theories.
TillEulenspiegel
Master Poster
- Joined
- May 30, 2003
- Messages
- 2,302
Skeptic said:
Na that's not applicable. One, Israel is an < coff,coff> Ally, secondly the US GIVES, repeat GIVES , Israel 6 billion , repeat 6 billion dollars ( $4 B acknowledged funds and an additional 2 B$ in non-declared ( black budget expenditures , such as shared Intel, AWACS ,SAT time , and other unmentionables )).
Our "ally" has under a few Israel administrations has been eager to accept money from the US and has no compunction to jam it's political thumb in the eye of it's benefactor. Most demonstrable in the thug Sharon's Lakud party.
Corwyn
Unregistered
C
There are other valid reasons like democracy in the middle east and the ouster of a dictator. And there are plausible reasons like revenge and or settling a score.
If your reason is the one that best fits your world view then it is unlikely you will consider any other reasons even if there is ample evidence to support them. Decisions based on diverse reasons don't fit neatly into conspiracy theories.
__________________
John,
I was being a bit facisious with my post. I do believe that there could be more than one reason, but I don't really buy your arguements listed above.
While a democracy in the middle east is a nice dream, it is just that! We heard the same pipe dream about Yugoslavia.
Granted I do not know much about the history of Iraq, but I do know that just like Yugo it is an artifical country. What I mean by that is that it was not created by, for or with the consent of it's people. IT was basically created by drawing artificila lines in the sand ( by Churchill and co. ) purely with the view of and the benefit of the "empire". Just like Yugoslavia, Iraq is made up of 3 seperate and distinct tribes that have been butchering each other for HUNDREDS of years and do not have the slightest desire to stop anytime soon.
Second, The US has NEVER involved itself in any conflict that was purely humanitarian and could give a ◊◊◊◊ about the freedom loving people of anywhere, if it's not profitable to itself.
I was born and raised in Hungary and I REMEMBER
1956 when we kicked the Russians out of our country by ourselves! Then for 3 WEEKS, the elected govt. of Hungary BEGGED the US for aid. We begged for assistance to create and
establish a democracy. To keep out a foregn nation that was trying to invade us! What did the US do? They watched the
bodies pile up while the Russians rolled back in and slaughtered and tortured 100s of thousands?
Where were the caring leaders of the US to support the freedom loving people of Hungary then? OH yea they were busy digging a cannal that was more profitable!
We were told the same nonsense about Yugo "once we get rid of Titto, the freedom loving people of Yugo will welcome our liberation, yadi yadi ya" Nearly 20 years later, millions of dead,
3 new countries, and god only know how many acts of war crimes, where the hell are we in Yugoslavia??
Iraq is no different and 20 years later we'll be in the same freaking place! Just like the Kurds and Croates didn't give a flying F(*& about democracy neither do the Kurds, Sunis or shiites in Iraq.
You CAN NOT force democracy on people, it is the only form of government which requires the will of the people. And, you simple do not have it in Iraq, nor do I think you will!
Some people, even some sane people, do not believe that a republic, which is the form of govt. that exist in the US contrary to popular belief, is the best form of govt. The fact that virtually NO American (certainly not it's leaders) can grasp this concept is one of the reasons why why so many people hate the US.
As for the other reasons - WMD, revenge - well THERE ARE NO WMDs and every document from any and every source has refuted the notion that Saddam had anything directly to do with 911. (oh and exactly who put Saddam in power?)
Now did wubya believe that or just wanted to, I don't know. But the facts do not bear these out to be lagitimate reasons to go to war. So what is the difference between these reasons and that "Allah told me to????"
We could play what if from now untill the second coming -
What we do know is that
US oil co's had NO contracts with/within Iraq prior to the war.
Now they do!
We were told and shown photos of the trucks that carried WMDs. We were told SPECIFIC numbers of tonage of all the different wmds that "we KNEW they had" prior to the war.
After the war - Still looking!
Prior to the war Saddam aided 911 -
After, we're still looking.
OHH and lets not forget the fact that a country that HAS OPENLY admitted that it HAS WMD - N. Korea is NOT even on the radar of the wubya campaign. But N. Korea is a poor, ecenomically zero country with no oil, so who cares about them.
And that is located right next to another bastion of freedom and democracy the US govt. has no problems kissing as with, called China.
Of course they allow US corporations to enslave their people and create record profits for their CEOs and share holders so again the "freedom loving people of China can just keep sucking raw eggs" OH and guess what, THEY'RE also loaded with WMDs.
So I think we can dispense with the "free the peoplevfrom tiranny" bs as a lagit reason for this or any action the US Govt engages in.
Corwyn
If your reason is the one that best fits your world view then it is unlikely you will consider any other reasons even if there is ample evidence to support them. Decisions based on diverse reasons don't fit neatly into conspiracy theories.
__________________
John,
I was being a bit facisious with my post. I do believe that there could be more than one reason, but I don't really buy your arguements listed above.
While a democracy in the middle east is a nice dream, it is just that! We heard the same pipe dream about Yugoslavia.
Granted I do not know much about the history of Iraq, but I do know that just like Yugo it is an artifical country. What I mean by that is that it was not created by, for or with the consent of it's people. IT was basically created by drawing artificila lines in the sand ( by Churchill and co. ) purely with the view of and the benefit of the "empire". Just like Yugoslavia, Iraq is made up of 3 seperate and distinct tribes that have been butchering each other for HUNDREDS of years and do not have the slightest desire to stop anytime soon.
Second, The US has NEVER involved itself in any conflict that was purely humanitarian and could give a ◊◊◊◊ about the freedom loving people of anywhere, if it's not profitable to itself.
I was born and raised in Hungary and I REMEMBER
1956 when we kicked the Russians out of our country by ourselves! Then for 3 WEEKS, the elected govt. of Hungary BEGGED the US for aid. We begged for assistance to create and
establish a democracy. To keep out a foregn nation that was trying to invade us! What did the US do? They watched the
bodies pile up while the Russians rolled back in and slaughtered and tortured 100s of thousands?
Where were the caring leaders of the US to support the freedom loving people of Hungary then? OH yea they were busy digging a cannal that was more profitable!
We were told the same nonsense about Yugo "once we get rid of Titto, the freedom loving people of Yugo will welcome our liberation, yadi yadi ya" Nearly 20 years later, millions of dead,
3 new countries, and god only know how many acts of war crimes, where the hell are we in Yugoslavia??
Iraq is no different and 20 years later we'll be in the same freaking place! Just like the Kurds and Croates didn't give a flying F(*& about democracy neither do the Kurds, Sunis or shiites in Iraq.
You CAN NOT force democracy on people, it is the only form of government which requires the will of the people. And, you simple do not have it in Iraq, nor do I think you will!
Some people, even some sane people, do not believe that a republic, which is the form of govt. that exist in the US contrary to popular belief, is the best form of govt. The fact that virtually NO American (certainly not it's leaders) can grasp this concept is one of the reasons why why so many people hate the US.
As for the other reasons - WMD, revenge - well THERE ARE NO WMDs and every document from any and every source has refuted the notion that Saddam had anything directly to do with 911. (oh and exactly who put Saddam in power?)
Now did wubya believe that or just wanted to, I don't know. But the facts do not bear these out to be lagitimate reasons to go to war. So what is the difference between these reasons and that "Allah told me to????"
We could play what if from now untill the second coming -
What we do know is that
US oil co's had NO contracts with/within Iraq prior to the war.
Now they do!
We were told and shown photos of the trucks that carried WMDs. We were told SPECIFIC numbers of tonage of all the different wmds that "we KNEW they had" prior to the war.
After the war - Still looking!
Prior to the war Saddam aided 911 -
After, we're still looking.
OHH and lets not forget the fact that a country that HAS OPENLY admitted that it HAS WMD - N. Korea is NOT even on the radar of the wubya campaign. But N. Korea is a poor, ecenomically zero country with no oil, so who cares about them.
And that is located right next to another bastion of freedom and democracy the US govt. has no problems kissing as with, called China.
Of course they allow US corporations to enslave their people and create record profits for their CEOs and share holders so again the "freedom loving people of China can just keep sucking raw eggs" OH and guess what, THEY'RE also loaded with WMDs.
So I think we can dispense with the "free the peoplevfrom tiranny" bs as a lagit reason for this or any action the US Govt engages in.
Corwyn