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The racist gene

MaGZ said:
A discussion was started in another thread prompted by the question how racism could still exist. I suggested perhaps there is a racist gene which helps to perpetrate racism and a particular ethno-type. I tend to think there is something to this and only the modern era has pushed some of us against our natural instincts to accept the other into our nation and family.
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There are reasons that people make foolish associations, in many contexts. No need for a specific gene for a specific form of foolishness, just the consequences of associative learning.

You don't understand genetics and social culture do you?
 
a_unique_person said:
Many mammals display groups behaviour. Why not humans?
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That does not mean that they are ingrained biological properties, they are learned, conditioned behaviors. So to say there is a biological basis for the behavior without looking to the biology is suspect, especially in humans.

Name the group behavior, then we can discuss the basis of what biological mechanism is involved, in humans there are quirks of biology that can effect behevior, but there is a huge predominant learned layer of behavior.

So when you talk about the 'sense of other', that comes about through social transmission almost totaly. The patterns of behavior are taught and learned by the younger memebers from the elders and peers, they are not inate.

Take something like 'personal' spave vs. 'social' space and displays of 'politeness' is something like a checkout line/queue at a store, they vary widely based upon culture and social learning. There is not a biological 'set distance of comfort from a stranger', it is learned and conditioned.

(That is what I mean, not that there is not a biological basis for behavior.)
 
MaGZ said:
A discussion was started in another thread prompted by the question how racism could still exist. I suggested perhaps there is a racist gene which helps to perpetrate racism and a particular ethno-type. I tend to think there is something to this and only the modern era has pushed some of us against our natural instincts to accept the other into our nation and family.
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I think it is a rogue Neaderthal gene that still gets expressed now and then: it also lowers IQ by about 50 points.
 
Dancing David said:
no instincts people. No instincts after the age of six weeks. Okay?
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Not okay. Before I'll buy that, I need to see some reason not to think of these basic motivations as instinctive:

1. Seeking food
2. Seeking water/beverages
3. Seeking safety (avoiding danger)
4. Seeking sex
5. Seeking socialization
 
casebro said:
But I propose that , if the gene exists, and in light of this discussion, what the proper name is "Xenophobic gene". We are all cautious of outsiders, right?
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Xenophobia is just one of many survival traits that we carry, this type is probably due to a combination of genes that determine the physical expression of our neural capabilities. Any animal with cognitive ability will develop these under survival pressures. Greed, selfishness, and gluttony describe a similar trait that is also tailored to social group self-identification. The groups are: self first, then family, then ones local social group, then ones identifiable phenotype. The survival traits mentioned so far are intellectually identified as immoral traits. There are also moral traits like defence of the young or injured.
 
Delvo said:
Not okay. Before I'll buy that, I need to see some reason not to think of these basic motivations as instinctive:

1. Seeking food
2. Seeking water/beverages
3. Seeking safety (avoiding danger)
4. Seeking sex
5. Seeking socialization
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Well, we can talk if you want, what is the basis of those drives?

Stimulus, choice, consequence to choice, conditioning.

Instincts are hard wired behaviors that are stereo typic or inflexible, they will be the same for all members of a species in response to a similar set of biological states, such as the male cat 'toe walk' in sexualized behavior, or mating dances in fish.

These are unlearned behaviors, they exist in the hard wiring of the critter. Strangely (and part of what may make humans what they are) is that humans have very few neonate skills, we do not have the partial hardwiring like most unglates that makes them learn walking within hours of birth. So they have a partly hardwired walking and partly learned walking set of behaviors. Compared to humans the walking is much more hard wired.

As you say 'seeking safety', that is not a hard wired , that is learned, things like a 'startle response' are largely unconditioned but avoiding danger is a learned behavior. Babies do not have an innate fear of much, they will respond to certain stimuli and develop choices based upon consequences.

That is what I mean.

Now discomfort such as hunger, thirst has a biological basis as does sex drive (there are some people who seem to have zero), pain avoidance, lonliness is more complex in that there is an array of states involved in that.
 
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