The Punishment of Gaza

[Thunder]

the damn charter exists as does the letter amending it. Just like you do in the US of A....you see the original document plus the documents that come later that amend it.

The PLO Charter is not the US Constitution. When the PLO Charter is amended, the actual text of the original Charter is changed. Just as it was amended in 1968, and these changes were reflected in the text of the Charter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Charter

So, where is the text of the amended Charter?

The PLO Council voted to approve these measures:

A. The Palestinian National Charter is hereby amended by canceling the articles that are contrary to the letters exchanged the P.L.O. and the Government of Israel 9–10 September 1993.

B. Assigns its legal committee with the task of redrafting the Palestinian National Charter in order to present it to the first session of the Palestinian Central Council."[5][6][7] The text of the Charter at the official website of the Palestinian National Authority appends these amendments to the text of the 1968 charter; the redrafting process referred to in the second amendment still remains uncompleted.[8]

So...where is the redraft of the Palestinian National Charter?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

...
it is highly hypocritical for Israelis and Zionists to bitch and moan about the PLO Charter, while not pushing their own government to recognize the right of Palestine to exist...

Here here.

The reality is that the Zionists will never accept peace until they have stolen every last piece of the occupied territories and cleared every last Palestinian from that land - as they are engaged in doing right now. Their squatter communities are racist to their core as not a single Palestinian is allowed to live there. The Zionists who control Israel will always find something to object to to prevent 'peace'. Yesterday it was Arafat. He went. Did things improve for the Palestinians - no they did not.

When everything else fails the Zionists will blame the weather. They will claim that until the Palestinians stop inclement weather hitting Israel there cannot be peace. We can see that ludicrous type of thing already in operation. They insist that the Palestinians carry on talking while Israel continues to illegally send squatters to occupy Palestinian land. No country would engage in 'peace' talks in such a position.

THe time has now come for the international community to declare a Palestinian state within the totality of the 1967 borders and to defend those borders by force if necessary. All squatters within that area should be given 3 years to get out or be forced out by the international force. Given Israel's repeatedly demonstrated total contempt for the human rights of the Palestinians, this is clearly the only way forward.

Squatters out.

 

[Thunder]

The PLO Charter is not the US Constitution. When the PLO Charter is amended, the actual text of the original Charter is changed. Just as it was amended in 1968, and these changes were reflected in the text of the Charter.

So...where is the redraft of the Palestinian National Charter?

I ask again, where is the redraft?

while it is hypocritical for Israel to demand the Palestinians accept Israel while the Knesset has yet to formally recognize the right of a Palestinian state, they are still correct in asking where the redrafted PLO Charter is.

Until such redraft is released, the Charter remains..unchanged.

 

[The Fool]

I ask again, where is the redraft?

while it is hypocritical for Israel to demand the Palestinians accept Israel while the Knesset has yet to formally recognize the right of a Palestinian state, they are still correct in asking where the redrafted PLO Charter is.

Until such redraft is released, the Charter remains..unchanged.

Do you want to make a case that a redraft is required and "hereby amended" does not mean "hereby amended" until it is done?

 

[The Fool]

I'll let you link to the amended PNC... ready? Go!

I think you mean the redrafted one? Thats the one you keep demanding to see and calling it the amended one.....thats getting boring.

1. The charter has been amended
2. The charter has not been redreafted a redrafted version does not exist and cannot be linked to
3. The charter was amended when the letter amending it was released.
4. you don't agree with this.

Can you please stop endlessly asking questions that are answered by the above?

 

[Tricky]

This post has continued to be off-topic and full bickering and personal attacks. Accordingly, another large chunk (with all of the metaphorical imagery that might convey) of posts have been moved to AAH. If you cannot discuss the topic without derails and without bickering, I suggest you abandon this thread, because if you don't, it will be shut down.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

 

[Thunder]

1. The charter has been amended

I understand how schizophrenic I must seem, taking this side of the issue, but I am on the side of truth, no matter which ideology is making the claim.

The last time the PLO amended their Charter in 1968, they provided a re-written version almost right away.

So, where is the re-written version of the PLO Charter, which excludes the sections which did not agree with the PLO-Israel agreements after the Oslo Accords?

Israelis are right to ask this question. It appears the PLO are stalling on re-drafting their Charter. Or they had no intention of re-drafting it.

Waiting for a final peace accord is no excuse for going back on their word.

Either they re-draft the Charter and make it public, or Israel has good reason to doubt their intention of recognizing Israel.

 

[bigjelmapro]

There's no doubt in the PLO's intention. PLO officials have stated, as was provided in the thread concerning this matter, that the PLO charter has never been re-drafted in include recognition of Israel. Nothing more to it.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

This post has continued to be off-topic and full bickering and personal attacks. Accordingly, another large chunk (with all of the metaphorical imagery that might convey) of posts have been moved to AAH. If you cannot discuss the topic without derails and without bickering, I suggest you abandon this thread, because if you don't, it will be shut down.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Tricky

The whole premise of the thread is trolling, so might as well be done with it and put it out of its misery. The topic itself should be AAH should it not?

 

[The Fool]

There's no doubt in the PLO's intention. PLO officials have stated, as was provided in the thread concerning this matter, that the PLO charter has never been re-drafted in include recognition of Israel. Nothing more to it.

and the likud charter says there is no prospect of a palestinian state....why should negotiations continue until it is changed?

 

[The Fool]

I understand how schizophrenic I must seem, taking this side of the issue, but I am on the side of truth, no matter which ideology is making the claim.

it is good that you have a conviction that your opinion is "the truth" but you are hardly robinson crusoe in holding that view.

The last time the PLO amended their Charter in 1968, they provided a re-written version almost right away.

Ok, this once again brings to light that there is no amendment until the original document and the amendment is redrafted into a single document....why doesn't the US insist on this for its own foundation documents?

So, where is the re-written version of the PLO Charter, which excludes the sections which did not agree with the PLO-Israel agreements after the Oslo Accords?

why do you continue to re-ask answered questions?

Israelis are right to ask this question. It appears the PLO are stalling on re-drafting their Charter. Or they had no intention of re-drafting it.

Likud has no intention of redrafting its charter...we are expected to accept that things have changed since then and things they have said and done since its drafting have rendered it non binding....we are to accept this but not accept a similar line on the plo charter?

Either they re-draft the Charter and make it public, or Israel has good reason to doubt their intention of recognizing Israel.

Do you recognize Australia? If I said that you had to recognize Australia as the home of the white man would you? Or would you state that you recognized Australia's right to exist but not its right to discriminate against non-whites? (this is otherwise known as "refusing to recognize Australia's right to exist")

 

[Thunder]

Ok, this once again brings to light that there is no amendment until the original document and the amendment is redrafted into a single document....why doesn't the US insist on this for its own foundation documents?

the rules are clear, and precedent has been set, for amending the PLO Charter. How the Constitution of the USA is amended is completely irrelevant.

until a re-draft of the PLO Charter is issued and made public, that removes the anti-Israel sections, the PLO Charter remains unchanged.


...the redraft would take about 5 mins, and could be posted on the internet. why has this not been done? what is the PLO waiting for?

an invitation from Allah?

 

[Mycroft]

The book is 'The Punishment of Gaza' by Gideon Levy. It is published by Verso Books and is available for £8.99p.

"Verso Books is the largest independent, radical publishing house in the English-speaking world, publishing eighty books a year. "

http://www.versobooks.com/pg/about-verso

I wouldn't take it too seriously if he can't get published by a normal publisher.

 

[bit_pattern]

In other words, you'll grasp at absolutely anything to deny evidence, right?

 

[The Fool]

until a re-draft of the PLO Charter is issued and made public, that removes the anti-Israel sections, the PLO Charter remains unchanged.


...the redraft would take about 5 mins, and could be posted on the internet. why has this not been done? what is the PLO waiting for?

an invitation from Allah?

once again I strongly suggest you write up this legal opinion on the validity of Palestinian amendments. You could send it to your government.....maybe they will change their opinion and agree with you.

Its funny how people want to think of the PLO as a loose band of baddies one day yet want to lecture them and tell them that their leader just can't amend their own charter by proclamation because of their sound code of laws. Maybe you should just tell them they can't kill people and completely neuter them eh?

once again...take it up with the PLO. Its them you need to convince that they don't control their own documents....

 

[Thunder]

Its funny how people want to think of the PLO as a loose band of baddies one day yet want to lecture them and tell them that their leader just can't amend their own charter by proclamation because of their sound code of laws.

their Charter has rules.

they have followed the rules before.

they can follow the rules again.

..stop making excuses.

 

[Elind]

Notice the naked, deep, racial hatred for Arabs and for an entire world religion.

Is this kind of similar to the fact that there are essentially no Jews left in any Arab territories?

To answer, it would be similar if there were no Arabs (or Muslims) in other parts of the world, and that includes Israel.

In truth the single most racially (since many equate religions with race) bigoted cultures on the planet are Arab Muslims.

 

[Thunder]

To answer, it would be similar if there were no Arabs (or Muslims) in other parts of the world, and that includes Israel.

Israel rid itself of 66% of its Arab population, in 1948. that's not bad....as far as ethnic cleansings are concerned.

 

[Elind]

Israel rid itself of 66% of its Arab population, in 1948. that's not bad....as far as ethnic cleansings are concerned.

No it wasn't cleansing. They left because their buddies told them they could be back very soon, and cleans the Jews.

Had there been cleansing there would be no Arab Israeli citizens. There sure as hell are no Jewish Palestinians, nor Saudis.

 

[The Fool]

their Charter has rules.

they have followed the rules before.

they can follow the rules again.

..stop making excuses.

I'm not making excuses I'm just choosing who is more appropriate to determine what Palestinian foundation documents mean....and control and determine in what way they are amended....Palestinians....or guys on the internet?