The Puerto Rico Thread

I read yesterday that the death toll in PR from Maria has been officially, if quietly, acknowledged to be 1142, IIRC
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/white-house-responds-massive-jump-223209775.html

The death toll is estimated to be 2975.

Puerto Rico’s governor on Tuesday raised the U.S. territory’s official death toll from 64 to 2,975 after an independent study. That’s almost twice the government’s previous estimate.

The new estimate of 2,975 dead in the six months after Maria devastated the island in September 2017 was made by researchers with the Milken Institute School of Public Health at George Washington University. It was released Tuesday.
This is shameful that we can't protect our own people better.

She says President Donald Trump “remains proud of all of the work the Federal family undertook to help our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico.”
I'm waiting for Trump and Co to challenge the figures.

Ranb
 
Trump took full credit for the artificially low numbers of official deaths shortly after the hurricane.
The actual very high number is obviously Robert Mueller's fault.
 
If you are not a White member of Trump's "Base", you don't matter in Trump's America.
End of story.
 
I always thought that "No taxation without representation" was supposed to resonate in the US.

How does that square with Puerto Rico's status?
 
I always thought that "No taxation without representation" was supposed to resonate in the US.

How does that square with Puerto Rico's status?

It's... weird. They do pay some taxes but not all and they have representation in Congress... thee representatives just can't vote. They also have no say in the Presidency since without being a state they have no Electorals. Which leads to this weird double standard where Americans leaving abroad in totally foreign countries can vote but Americans living in America just not in a state can't.

I do agree that it's all B.S. and Puerto Rico needs to be either a state or fully independent.
 
Last edited:
It's... weird. They do pay some taxes but not all and they have representation in Congress... thee representatives just can't vote. They also have no say in the Presidency since without being a state they have no Electorals. Which leads to this weird double standard where Americans leaving abroad in totally foreign countries can vote but Americans living in America just not in a state can't.

I do agree that it's all B.S. and Puerto Rico needs to be either a state or fully independent.

And time and time again in polls, Puerto Ricans have supported Commonwealth status.
 
And time and time again in polls, Puerto Ricans have supported Commonwealth status.

Which is also... kinda weird.

But regardless I'd be perfectly fine with the US Government giving Puerto Rico a "crap or get off the pot" ultimatum but leaving the choice whether to crap or get off the pot to them.

It's 2018 we aren't empire building anymore.
 
:confused:

The last vote was 97% in favor of becoming a state. Of course the GOP will never let that happen with DC and American Samoa's purgatories.

The voter turnout was 23% in that election, which was boycotted by anti-statehood forces. I can't believe The Atlantic didn't emphasize that. It makes the article incredibly misleading.

As I recall, the reason for the boycott was there was some funny business about exactly what was being voted on. There are three options available, statehood, independence, and status quo. Any time there are more than two options in an election, it's impossible to be certain exactly which option is most popular. (Seriously. Look up "the election theorem") In this case, the "status quo" faction felt that the way the ballot was held would artificially inflate the support for statehood, so they boycotted.

I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.


Nevertheless, what is clear is that the people of Puerto Rico really are US citizens, and the response to Maria was shabby and indeed, shameful. Also, as I said some times early in the thread, there is one guy who could have done something to fix that, and he didn't. I don't blame the president for everything, but this time, it really was his fault.
 
The voter turnout was 23% in that election, which was boycotted by anti-statehood forces. I can't believe The Atlantic didn't emphasize that. It makes the article incredibly misleading.

As I recall, the reason for the boycott was there was some funny business about exactly what was being voted on. There are three options available, statehood, independence, and status quo. Any time there are more than two options in an election, it's impossible to be certain exactly which option is most popular. (Seriously. Look up "the election theorem") In this case, the "status quo" faction felt that the way the ballot was held would artificially inflate the support for statehood, so they boycotted.

I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.


Nevertheless, what is clear is that the people of Puerto Rico really are US citizens, and the response to Maria was shabby and indeed, shameful. Also, as I said some times early in the thread, there is one guy who could have done something to fix that, and he didn't. I don't blame the president for everything, but this time, it really was his fault.

And unlike Bush and Katrina, he seems to have got away with it.
 
I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.

It's not that hard because outside of about half a dozen places all the other places don't have people. I don't give a toss what happens to a bunch of barely island we claimed because we wanted bird poop. They can all just be declared National Parks and be done with.

Puerto Rico, Guam, The Northern Mariana Islands, the Virgin Islands, and America Samoa are really the only ones we should worry about.
 
It's not that hard because outside of about half a dozen places all the other places don't have people. I don't give a toss what happens to a bunch of barely island we claimed because we wanted bird poop. They can all just be declared National Parks and be done with.

Puerto Rico, Guam, The Northern Mariana Islands, the Virgin Islands, and America Samoa are really the only ones we should worry about.

In terms of practical solutions to problems, it is very easy. In terms of politics, it's much harder. I would like to say, "Forget politics. Let's just do what makes sense." but, well, I don't see that happening.
 
It's... weird. They do pay some taxes but not all and they have representation in Congress... thee representatives just can't vote. They also have no say in the Presidency since without being a state they have no Electorals. Which leads to this weird double standard where Americans leaving abroad in totally foreign countries can vote but Americans living in America just not in a state can't.

I do agree that it's all B.S. and Puerto Rico needs to be either a state or fully independent.

Yea that isn't going to happen, because congress isn't going to grant them statehood.
 
And time and time again in polls, Puerto Ricans have supported Commonwealth status.

Yes and no. Becoming a state has won or achieved a plurality a couple times those votes just get ignored for various reasons. The last vote 97% voted to become a state. The problem was that it had low voter turnout because the anti state parties convinced people to stay home instead of vote against statehood, so it becomes a real question of how broad the support is.
 
The voter turnout was 23% in that election, which was boycotted by anti-statehood forces. I can't believe The Atlantic didn't emphasize that. It makes the article incredibly misleading.

As I recall, the reason for the boycott was there was some funny business about exactly what was being voted on. There are three options available, statehood, independence, and status quo. Any time there are more than two options in an election, it's impossible to be certain exactly which option is most popular. (Seriously. Look up "the election theorem") In this case, the "status quo" faction felt that the way the ballot was held would artificially inflate the support for statehood, so they boycotted.

I tend to agree with Joe Morgue that the US ought to demand the Puerto Ricans vote either in our out, and do away with this sort of intermediate status, but I feel that way about every US territory. Once you start trying to figure out what to do with the US Virgin Islands, the Northern Marianas, and Midway Atoll, it gets sticky, and it's understandable why politicians don't want to touch it with a 10 foot poll (pun, and misspelling, intended). So, although it would make sense to do away with the concept of "territory" for the US, I can understand why it won't happen.


Nevertheless, what is clear is that the people of Puerto Rico really are US citizens, and the response to Maria was shabby and indeed, shameful. Also, as I said some times early in the thread, there is one guy who could have done something to fix that, and he didn't. I don't blame the president for everything, but this time, it really was his fault.

The previous statehood previously beat out independence or remaining a commonwealth but was beat out by none of the above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rican_status_referendum,_1998
 
In terms of practical solutions to problems, it is very easy. In terms of politics, it's much harder. I would like to say, "Forget politics. Let's just do what makes sense." but, well, I don't see that happening.

What next you will want people of American Samoa to be american citizens.
 

Back
Top Bottom