The Puerto Rico Thread

[ponderingturtle]

Time for PR, USVI, Marshall Islands and Guam to either become the 51st State or independent nations. If they really wanted to be treated like Americans they should be required to act like full Americans.

But we are going to keep them as they are, too useful for wallstreet to prey on to make them states no matter what they population wants.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Much as I think PR should be a state, there has for a long time been a nationalist movement within the country that want (or they did want) independence rather that statehood. The political will for statehood or lack of it is not all coming from the mainland.

Not in recent years. The last referendum had a vastly overwhelming majority of the votes for statehood.

 

[LTC8K6]

Jones Act has been waived.

 

[Mumbles]

I saw one of these hospital ships parked in Baltimore back in the late 90's. It's massive. If one or more of these aren't on the way, there better be a damn good reason.

eta: USS Navy Comforter getting set to go from Norfolk
They need 3 more days to get it ready and 5 days transit. So, it is 8 days away still.




[qimg]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--b--x3kTt--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/180xci6wvij8pjpg.jpg[/qimg]

This looks like a photoshop.
However, if the nursery ship is moving out...That's what we wanted.

 

[JoeMorgue]

This looks like a photoshop.

No they really are that big. The USNS Comfort was moored for a few weeks next to the USS Harry S Truman, a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier I was stationed on for a few years, and they are one of the few ships that don't look like bathroom toys next to them.

The USNS Comfort and her sister ship the USNS Mercy are converted Sam Clemente class supertankers, 894 feet long.

 

[The Don]

No they really are that big. The USNS Comfort was moored for a few weeks next to the USS Harry S Truman, a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier I was stationed on for a few years, and they are one of the few ships that don't look like bathroom toys next to them.

The USNS Comfort and her sister ship the USNS Mercy are converted Sam Clemente class supertankers, 894 feet long.

Impressively huge though if Wiki is to be believed, perhaps a little outdated.

In mid-2004 Vice Admiral Michael L. Cowan, the Surgeon General and chief of the Bureau of Medicine and Surgery, said that the Comfort and Mercy should be retired. "They’re wonderful ships, but they’re dinosaurs. They were designed in the ’70s, built in the ’80s, and frankly, they’re obsolete".

Few, if any, options are presently being explored to replace them with a platform better suited to the mission at this time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy-class_hospital_ship

 

[Trebuchet]

I saw one of these hospital ships parked in Baltimore back in the late 90's. It's massive. If one or more of these aren't on the way, there better be a damn good reason.

eta: USS Navy Comforter getting set to go from Norfolk
They need 3 more days to get it ready and 5 days transit. So, it is 8 days away still.




[qimg]https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--b--x3kTt--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/180xci6wvij8pjpg.jpg[/qimg]

Considering that the devastation was predicted days in advance, it seems like this should have happened much earlier.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That's why I opined upthread about the feasibility of replacing them with more robust purpose built "Disaster Relief Ships" that retained the robust hospital facilities but included power plants, shallower drafts, water production facilities, and stores of disaster supplies.

 

[alfaniner]

I just saw an on-site reporter say to the camera " It's heartbreaking! Come on over here -- look at this woman crying."

The very first time I saw this guy (Bill Weir, I think -- CNN) I had an intense dislike for him. Now it's verging on hatred as an example of the "wrong" way to do media coverage.

 

[Blue Mountain]

Considering that the devastation was predicted days in advance, it seems like this should have happened much earlier.

Part of the problem here is it's difficult to predict just where such a vessel should go. While it's almost certain a large hurricane will cause a lot of destruction, predicting where that destruction will occur is next to impossible. So it's likewise almost impossible to set up the sailing orders in advance.

One question I had was: why does it take three full days from the time when the ship is given her orders until she actually sails? I suspect it's because even though the ship's in dock she's receiving only minimal maintenance with a skeleton crew. So the navy has to call up crew, stock up on food, and perhaps even load fuel and fresh water. They may even have to bring some systems back on-line and check them out because they've been shut down for a while.

 

[Meadmaker]

I just saw an on-site reporter say to the camera " It's heartbreaking! Come on over here -- look at this woman crying."

The very first time I saw this guy (Bill Weir, I think -- CNN) I had an intense dislike for him. Now it's verging on hatred as an example of the "wrong" way to do media coverage.

This is the kind of coverage I really hate. I know that images of individual suffering keep eyeballs on the tube, but it isn't really informative.

 

[quadraginta]

Jones Act has been waived.

For 10 days.

So by the time they get harbor operations up to speed and enough infrastructure restored to make moving goods around the island anything close to routine it will have long expired.

And the residents will be back to paying extravagant prices for the goods they need.

Only this time they will be needing them to rebuild.

As empty gestures go this one was a chart topper.

 

[Ziggurat]

This is the kind of coverage I really hate. I know that images of individual suffering keep eyeballs on the tube, but it isn't really informative.

Reminds me of this:

 

[applecorped]

For 10 days.

So by the time they get harbor operations up to speed and enough infrastructure restored to make moving goods around the island anything close to routine it will have long expired.

And the residents will be back to paying extravagant prices for the goods they need.

Only this time they will be needing them to rebuild.

As empty gestures go this one was a chart topper.

What makes you think it won't be extended

 

[Trebuchet]

Part of the problem here is it's difficult to predict just where such a vessel should go. While it's almost certain a large hurricane will cause a lot of destruction, predicting where that destruction will occur is next to impossible. So it's likewise almost impossible to set up the sailing orders in advance.

One question I had was: why does it take three full days from the time when the ship is given her orders until she actually sails? I suspect it's because even though the ship's in dock she's receiving only minimal maintenance with a skeleton crew. So the navy has to call up crew, stock up on food, and perhaps even load fuel and fresh water. They may even have to bring some systems back on-line and check them out because they've been shut down for a while.

I expect that's correct; and it's not really the ship's crew that's the problem -- it's the medical staff. They probably have to come in from bases all over the place.

 

[Graham2001]

I expect that's correct; and it's not really the ship's crew that's the problem -- it's the medical staff. They probably have to come in from bases all over the place.

Plus the medical supplies themselves, the best way to get a perspective to what is going on is to look at what was done for past disasters with those ships.

 

[Meadmaker]

Today, Tom Bossert, Homeland Security Advisor, praised the government's response, and described it as "textbook".


Well, yes, Mr. Bossert. It is. Sadly, the situation isn't textbook.


As best I can tell from news reports, some hospitals and a small area around them have electricity, but other news articles still describe them scrounging to find diesel fuel to run their generators.

 

[The Don]

Today, Tom Bossert, Homeland Security Advisor, praised the government's response, and described it as "textbook".

Well he would, wouldn't he ? When you praise your own actions then it's hardly a ringing endorsement.

OTOH I understand that the governor of Puerto Rico has given guarded praise to the White House response - IMO that carries more weight.

 

[Tolls]

Impressively huge though if Wiki is to be believed, perhaps a little outdated.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy-class_hospital_ship

That sounds more to me like the ship does not fit in with how modern conflicts work. Probably too large and a bit slow.

It's a dinosaur in so far as it was built with the cold war in mind, but that doesn't mean it won't be a very handy mobile hospital for the current crisis.

 

[Meadmaker]

Well he would, wouldn't he ? When you praise your own actions then it's hardly a ringing endorsement.

OTOH I understand that the governor of Puerto Rico has given guarded praise to the White House response - IMO that carries more weight.

I don't think anyone could reasonably fault the magnitude of the government's response, and I think that's what we are seeing from the governor. The fact that his praise is "guarded" I think comes from judging the effectiveness of the response, rather than the magnitude.

I don't think it would be fair to criticize Trump or the government for not doing enough. I think it would be fair to judge them for not doing enough of the right things.