The Parapsychological Experimenter Effect

[tesscaline]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_psycho10.htm

And now...once again I have reached the point where I am sick of talking to ignorant, narrow-minded, arrogant, smart-ass pseudo-skeptic fundamentalists. Unfortunetly it happened before I resume talking to arthwollipot. He seemes like a decent guy that I wouldn't mind talking to. Oh well. I'll be back sooner or later

I think you may need to make use of a dictionary, as the mere act of asking how certain claims being made relate to a topic at hand is not narrow-minded, arrogant, smart-ass, pseudo-skeptic, or fundamentalist.

If you are unable to answer the question in your own words, perhaps you don't understand the cockamamie presumptions being made in the paper you seem to think I should be required to read? You know, the one with gross misrepresentations in it? For example: The "paper" you link Henry Stapp as being a physicist at UC Berkeley, insinuating that he was a professor or someone else of authority there, when in actuality he was (at the time of his presence at said university) only a graduate student.

 

[Robin]

I was more concerned about calming her down. The exact wording, and the particular questions they asked seemed like minor details.

I doubt the Ouija board spelled out a complete sentence like, "I am going to kill your unborn baby, Carol". If I may speculate, it seems more likely that Carol asked about the fate of her baby, thus giving her fears a chance to surface, and then the response was something like "death". Maybe a followup question asked how, and the answer was "me".

Fair enough - I just found the lack of curiousity strange. Whenever something happens to me suggestive of a paranormal experience I am usually all over every detail.

It is not that I am dismissing the possibility of the paranormal, it is just that I don't dismiss any alternate explanation either.

 

[Dancing David]

Dancing David,

I can only guess at the associations to certain words I use that you are making in your head. You seem to think I'm saying, "Hey! Listen up! The ancient myth-makers and mystics were a "heroic elite" that you need to bow down to!"

I used the word heroic once...in reference to the hero deeds in mythology. Hercules, for instance. Jason. The Knights of the Round Table. etc.

By elite, I don't mean to suggest superiority and authority over you or anyone. Quit being so defensive, all right?

Your comprehension of cultural anthroplogy is boundless...

 

[Dancing David]

"Elite (also spelled Élite) is taken originally from the Latin, eligere, "to elect". In sociology as in general usage, the élite is a relatively small dominant group within a large society, which enjoys a privileged status envied by individuals of lower social status."

Dancing David,

Surely you aren't saying that at the heart of mythologies and religions there is no sort of "small dominant group." A priesthood, a tribal shaman, etc.

maybe you should study anthropolgy before you make such goofy assertions. Mythology, the role of petty cheiftans and shamans is well documenetd despite the modern agricultural dominance. If you don't understand the cultural social impact of pre modern societies, then you don't know much to base your statements on .Members of the tribe who are recognised for their particular abolities are elders or petty cheifs but they are not an elite. They have tp work with the other members of the group in a consensual basis. The sami and some others have specialist members as shamans but generaly shamans are members of the group, they have special abilities but they are not an elite. The rise of priesthoods and kings is part of agriculture.

Surely you aren't saying there was no social hierarchy of some sort in ancient mythologies. And surely you aren't saying that these small dominant groups did not practice a system of mysticism.

If you knew what you were talking about you would already know that mysticism is not practised solely by the 'elite' and that mythology is not the sole provenance of the 'elite'. having seen and participated in these things, members of the community participate. Do you think that only the elite participate in these things, you are silly.

And surely you aren't saying that such groups didn't incorporate their mystical experiences into their respective mythologies.

Are you?

Elite are not the driving force in mysticism and mythology.

If you are NOT saying these things, then may I suggest that you are over-reacting to things I've said in a rather hasty, defensive, and emotional manner.

You know less about anthropology than you do science.

If you ARE saying these things, then I have to scratch my head and wonder where the heck you are coming from.


Note I'm trying not to make a value judgment as to whether these groups, mythologies, religions, mystical experiences, etc are "right" or "wrong" or "true" or "false" here, or whether the authority these groups had in their society was just, or right, or moral, or corrupt.

No you are seeming to say that the elite drives mythology and mysticism.

 

[Dancing David]

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_psycho10.htm

And now...once again I have reached the point where I am sick of talking to ignorant, narrow-minded, arrogant, smart-ass pseudo-skeptic fundamentalists. Unfortunetly it happened before I resume talking to arthwollipot. He seemes like a decent guy that I wouldn't mind talking to. Oh well. I'll be back sooner or later

Well now we know where you get some bad ideas.

 

[arthwollipot]

Now you're an atheist, correct? Are you spiritual?

I don't even know what that means. Can you please define what "spiritual" means in this context?

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_psycho10.htm

And now...once again I have reached the point where I am sick of talking to ignorant, narrow-minded, arrogant, smart-ass pseudo-skeptic fundamentalists. Unfortunetly it happened before I resume talking to arthwollipot. He seemes like a decent guy that I wouldn't mind talking to. Oh well. I'll be back sooner or later

Well, I'm flattered. I wouldn't mind continuing our conversation either. I think we were starting to get somewhere. It's just a shame that your beliefs can't stand a great deal of heavy scrutiny.

I'd also like to bring the conversation back to the topic of the OP.

Perhaps some other time.