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The Occult is not Innocent Entertainment (This means you, Mr. Potter!)

Wrathernaut

Thinker
Wrathernaut
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
243
I had to double-check that this wasn't an Onion article, it's that amusing.

http://catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=37447
This whole interview about the occult opening doors to posession was truly eye-opening to me. :eek:

And it's *real*:
What makes the occult so dangerous is the fact that it is based upon something real -- the preternatural world of fallen angels, headed by Lucifer himself. Below him are the "choirs" of devils and demons who are a reverse mirror, in their fallen state, of the hierarchy of angels.
Click to expand...

This bit here in particular seems like a testable claim about demon knowledge right here:

Father Euteneuer reminded me that as fallen angels, demons are smarter than any human being. "The darkest demon is smarter than I am," he said. An exorcist must remain aware of the demon's ability to know everything about the person they are possessing, including family members, and those who may enter the room to cast them out.
Click to expand...
 
Wrathernaut said:
I had to double-check that this wasn't an Onion article, it's that amusing.

http://catholic.org/hf/faith/story.php?id=37447
This whole interview about the occult opening doors to posession was truly eye-opening to me. :eek:

And it's *real*:


This bit here in particular seems like a testable claim about demon knowledge right here:
Click to expand...
Mixing potions and doing magic is the same as prayer. Do either and nothing happens. Some people wake up and drop their superstitious beliefs and other people don't. If an amputee prays to jesus for another limb nothing happens. If you do sacrifices and mix potions and do ritual nothing happens. One religion is as useless as another.
 
I believe that many things are smarter than this guy is. I don't think that means those things are super-intelligent.
 
Have you read the comments under the article? Some of these people are unhinged.

Or trolls from 4chan, which probably amounts to the same thing.
 
We are all seeing it from the point of view of our rationalist/atheism/whatever. But think of it from THEIR point of view. Once you assume the bible /saint/holy men/devil to exists, then indeed such make-pretend game would lead to calling upon the dark angel to you. They are self consistent, more or less.

That said, I have been laughing for the last 5 minutes.
 
Sledge said:
Have you read the comments under the article? Some of these people are unhinged.

Or trolls from 4chan, which probably amounts to the same thing.
Click to expand...

Yes, I did. I had to stop.

If they are trolls from 4chan, I don't give those guys enough credit.

I dunno, the whole article read to me like a WoW fansite discussion of the particulars of playing druids and whether it was ok to wear a Wolffang Helmet with a Felinus Maximus Clawglove.
 
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Maybe that's why Daniel Radcliffe is so short. There's been a demon inside him since the first movie and it consumes so much of his life force that he didn't have it in him to grow taller.

But seriously, have you seen the latest movie? I always thought he'd grow up to be taller. =(

It's just another effort by the Catholic church to exert some sort of control over people through fear. It's really the entire premise for the religion anyway, isn't it? Do what we say or you'll burn in hell?
 
If you can believe a god would impregnate a 14-year-old virgin, what can you not believe?

Having been reared in such, I can tell you that the fear of and belief in magic of all kinds is very strong in the fundie set. You can't believe in the magic of god (though you call it "grace" and "miracles") and not believe in every other kind of magic.
 
Please make it stop!

Over the past couple of decades it seems more and more Catholics are getting on board the "exorcism" train.

I went to a Jesuit HS back in the 80's. While there I learned absolutely nothing about any of the following subjects:

Creation (save a few lectures on the mythology of the ancient near east)
Exorcism
Demons/Devils
Supernatural magic

I was, however, given very good instruction in the following subjects (granted, I didn't retain that much, but still):

Mainstream biology/chemistry/physics
Economics
Ethical philosophy (not just from from the Catholic point of view)
Mathematics
History....etc.

In addition, while studying Christian literature (e.g. The Bible) we were taught the difference between literal historical writing and allegory (among other things).

Point being, back then anyone who brought up this type of sillyness in front of educated Catholics would be either laughed at outright or at the very least given blank stares.

At least, that is the world as I remember it.

Personally, I think that the Catholics are reacting to the "glitz" of fundamentalist beliefs in demons, exorcism and other such things. Let's face it, exorcising demons is much more exciting than collecting canned goods for the homeless.

Is it possible that some Catholic clergy are trying to level the playing field by trying to "out woo" the millenialists? Trying to appeal to the "holy warrior" mentality? Get the zeal going so they come to mass (and fill up the collection plate while they are there)?

I don't know, but I hope that is not the case. If so then it's only a matter of time before Georgetown, Loyola, Notre Dame and DePaul share the same level of academic rigor as Pat Robertson University.
 
One of the proctors in my dorm during freshman at Catholic U told us he'd observed a demonic possession while in Italy.
The possessed recognized him as a priest, despite his not wearing priest clothes.
A mark on the soul, he said.
That the possessed was being be-deviled by only the clergy at the time made the statement somewhat of a Duh!! to me.
 
Sledge said:
I believe that many things are smarter than this guy is. I don't think that means those things are super-intelligent.
Click to expand...
Earthworms and planarians definitely. Probable that dung beetles give him a run for the money likewise. Though they share his ability to push .....dung.
 
Cainkane1 said:
Mixing potions and doing magic is the same as prayer. Do either and nothing happens. Some people wake up and drop their superstitious beliefs and other people don't. If an amputee prays to jesus for another limb nothing happens. If you do sacrifices and mix potions and do ritual nothing happens. One religion is as useless as another.
Click to expand...

I think this is why those churches see this occult stuff as dangerous. It threatens their entire raison d'etre if people start to think that magic isn't real.

They have to go on telling people all about how very real and terrifying it all is, otherwise people might start to suspect that communion wafers are just bland crackers, not God flesh and the communion wine isn't the blood of Christ, just a drop of cheap cask red wine. The Priest waving his incense burner starts to look like an old man in a dress with a burning handbag and the crucifix on the wall depicting the love and sacrifice of Our Lord And Saviour becomes a glamourised representation of torturing a Jew. For some reason these churches don't want that...
 
I think the reason religion attacks things like this, including d and d, fantasy literature, etc is pretty simple.

If you start reading things like this, or playing d and d ( slightly different ways of getting to the same conclusion. ) you realize that fiction can have good morals ( or at least a display of how not to act.), that magic and the supernatural can be interesting without being true, and that it is perfectly possible to have 100+ books that are fairly internally consistent.

In short, once you start getting involved, you start to, in a round about way get shown that the christian bible is not that unique. Works of all kinds have heros that are good role models ( in all honesty i would say Drizzt is a much better rold model than JC), and stories don't have to be true to provide good advice.

To summarize , think of it this way.

Would you be able to tell which one is fiction if the drizzt books and the bible were both explained to you, and you didn't have any knowledge of which one people are claiming is real.
 
All this talk reminds me of "Father Wingate", and his personal friend Archangel Michael. If you listen to Coast to Coast for any length of time you will know of him. When ask what would Archangel Michael would say what religion was the correct religion, it was the Catholic religion of course.
 
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