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Ed The Miracles Continue ...

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aleCcowaN said:
Hear,hear! A solid and thorough argument.

If you don't mind me asking, are you a native speaker of Arabic? Because I'm having a hard time understanding if Arabic has more than one past tense (it looks to me that way). 'Cause if that's the case there's a bunch of problems understanding what happened first and what happened later, as so many contradicting English versions of each verse show.
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I don't have any serious training in Arabic. I used to know by heart 320 pages of the Koran and the meaning of every single word of it through my basic knowledge of Arabic and through interpretations. (One reason it's easy to memorize the Koran is that it's repetitive and the grammar and words [and the topics] are to a large part are basic.) It's been 20 years I do not get involved with it. If I hear the Koran I pretty much know what is being said though (providing it doesn't talk about some worldly orders of its author).
Arabic today is nothing like the Arabic in the Koran and Hadith. And the Arabic in the Koran is slightly different from the Hadith. Muslims believe because the Koran is the direct word of Allah while the Hadith is inspired to Mohammad and is Mohammad's own words. I used to believe that too. But now I have an intelligent understanding of the difference. It's is about the time lapse. Hadith were collected more than a century later and from a wider geography. And also the Koran is heard 24/7 by (Arab) Muslims while Hadith are not. So there is more familiarity with one. That's a contributor to the feeling of Koran being different than Mohammad's own sayings. And they -in time- developed a recitation tradition and it being the only allowed musical application of sound (human voice as songs and instruments being forbidden) and they got pretty good and magical in it. It is the best wrap (recitation) that a crop could be presented as "gift".
 
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Thank you. I'm learning a lot and filling voids in my general education, as world history before 1453 was a subject in 8th grade during my times, with some 60 lessons, one of them Muhammad and the Islamic expansion, another one about the Crusades, and a third one about the Spanish reconquest. It's like nothing is not West-centred.

By personal choice I went deeper studying history of culture, including India and China, but by some unexplainable reason the Islamic world slipped through the cracks, which is inexcusable as Arabic makes some 4% of Spanish vocabulary: almohada (the pillow), alicate (the scissors), ojalá (may god grant) and even the preposition hasta (until).
 
In reference to varying translations, I just left a site discussing the highly illegal tactics in a school system where truly Dickensian methods are used to inculcate narrowly fundamentalist Christian thinking in a public school; one teacher, quite incensed with a student, defiantly defended the existence of unicorns since they are mentioned in the KJV. Upon checking, one finds the word translated as "unicorn" in the KJV in other translations becomes buffalo, rhinoceros, wild-ox or reem (possibly an aurochs). My point here being that varying translations can bring humor, confusion, bewilderment or even direct confrontation - to no very good purpose. A broader field of discussion can often smooth over or even avoid such potential conflict. Keep in mind there can be many sides to an issue unless one is personally invested whereupon there is only one.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
The universes were initially in liquid form.

11:7 He is the One who has created the heavens and the earth in six days, and His Throne was upon the water; so as to test who from among you works the best. And when you say: "You will be resurrected after the death," those who have rejected say: "This is but clear magic!"
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51:49 From everything We created a pair, perhaps you may remember.

So, multiple universes there are.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
51:49 From everything We created a pair, perhaps you may remember.

So, multiple universes there are.
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Yes, everything, EVERYTHING!!!
Yes, a pair of balls, a pair of ... oh, wait!

Allah's razor:
Besides singular and plural, Arabic has dual. The inventors of the Quran wrote in Arabic according to their quotidian experience.

There are pairs ---> deedly-dee potatoes!!(or "dates!!" in this case) then they are multiple!!!!:tinfoil
 
Please note, the thread topic is Miracles. Since no miracles have been posted yet, I thought I'd share a few:

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This miracle is just implied

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The miracle of birth.

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Coolest video in the thread. Behind a Spoiler tag so only the cool people see it. It's a live birth. Cool stuff.

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winter salt said:
I don't have any serious training in Arabic. I used to know by heart 320 pages of the Koran and the meaning of every single word of it through my basic knowledge of Arabic and through interpretations. (One reason it's easy to memorize the Koran is that it's repetitive and the grammar and words [and the topics] are to a large part are basic.) It's been 20 years I do not get involved with it. If I hear the Koran I pretty much know what is being said though (providing it doesn't talk about some worldly orders of its author).
Arabic today is nothing like the Arabic in the Koran and Hadith. And the Arabic in the Koran is slightly different from the Hadith. Muslims believe because the Koran is the direct word of Allah while the Hadith is inspired to Mohammad and is Mohammad's own words. I used to believe that too. But now I have an intelligent understanding of the difference. It's is about the time lapse. Hadith were collected more than a century later and from a wider geography. And also the Koran is heard 24/7 by (Arab) Muslims while Hadith are not. So there is more familiarity with one. That's a contributor to the feeling of Koran being different than Mohammad's own sayings. And they -in time- developed a recitation tradition and it being the only allowed musical application of sound (human voice as songs and instruments being forbidden) and they got pretty good and magical in it. It is the best wrap (recitation) that a crop could be presented as "gift".
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Sorry, is that last part true? Are Arabic Muslims allowed to sit only the Koran?
 
Adam and his wife, Then other some people were also created from direct soil.

2:36 So, the devil tricked both and he brought both of them out from what they were in, and We said, "Descend, you are all enemies of one another. In the land shall be stability for you and luxury for a while."

2:37 Adam then received words from His Lord, so He forgave him; He is the Forgiver, the Compassionate.

2:38 We said, "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."

The 36th verse refers to the descent of the first man Adam and his wife as a result of forbidding approach, while the 38th verse points out that some other people created for this world are also gathering together. Because 36th is already given orders, at 38th it is said again and again this time "all of you are going down" and also the future of the ambassadors.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Adam and his wife, Then other some people were also created from direct soil.

2:36 So, the devil tricked both and he brought both of them out from what they were in, and We said, "Descend, you are all enemies of one another. In the land shall be stability for you and luxury for a while."

2:37 Adam then received words from His Lord, so He forgave him; He is the Forgiver, the Compassionate.

2:38 We said, "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."

The 36th verse refers to the descent of the first man Adam and his wife as a result of forbidding approach, while the 38th verse points out that some other people created for this world are also gathering together. Because 36th is already given orders, at 38th it is said again and again this time "all of you are going down" and also the future of the ambassadors.
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That was another random piece of dubious, badly translated human literature from the spammer who cannot stay on topic -nor define what the topic is-, nor replies criticism, nor can do anything that really justifies him participating here.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Adam and his wife, Then other some people were also created from direct soil.

2:36 So, the devil tricked both and he brought both of them out from what they were in, and We said, "Descend, you are all enemies of one another. In the land shall be stability for you and luxury for a while."

2:37 Adam then received words from His Lord, so He forgave him; He is the Forgiver, the Compassionate.

2:38 We said, "Descend from it all of you, so when the guidance comes from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, they will have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve."

The 36th verse refers to the descent of the first man Adam and his wife as a result of forbidding approach, while the 38th verse points out that some other people created for this world are also gathering together. Because 36th is already given orders, at 38th it is said again and again this time "all of you are going down" and also the future of the ambassadors.
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And;

According to the Qur'an, Adam and his wife have sinned together. The verses do not blame the woman.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
51:49 From everything We created a pair, perhaps you may remember.

So, multiple universes there are.
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Muhammad was not talking about universes, he was talking about goats and camels and such. There is nothing miraculous about stating that everything is created in pairs, it is just stating the obvious. As for 'universes' the word does not appear in the Quran.
 
Emre_1974tr said:
And;

According to the Qur'an, Adam and his wife have sinned together. The verses do not blame the woman.
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The Quran is utter bunk, as there obviously never was an Adam and Eve. The story is nothing but a Jewish myth.

But maybe you have been on a Hajj and climbed the hill in Mecca where Adam and Eve first met. So you have to believe in the story. What utter bunk!
 
Emre_1974tr said:
Only God's word is a source of religion.

Only the Qur'an offers true religion.

The only source of religion is the Qur'an.

We do not talk about people's thoughts here. We are talking about the truth.
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The truth ! if the truth is the Quran is the words of God everyone is in big trouble. Because the God described in the Quran is a sadistic, semi literate , mumbling monstrosity.

But then you think that ants can talk because the Quran says so.
 
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Emre_1974tr said:
No,

Translation is correct.

English translations are often incorrect and incomplete.

There are those who are closest to the truth in Turkish translations. Not much in English.

Moreover, it is also true, that the, gas, smoke and vapor forms are true for this verse.

Edip-Layth (Quran: A Reformist Translation)
41:11 Furthermore, He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."3


The Monotheist Group (The Quran: A Monotheist Translation)
41:11 Then He settled to the heaven, while it was still smoke, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We come willingly."
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Gas and smoke are not the same things. Most of the English translations use the word ' smoke' Your Turkish translation had to be translated into English, and so it is twice removed from the original Arabic. Therefore more likely to be faulty.
 
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