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Ed The Madeleine McCann Case.
- Thread starter wasapi
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That is a good point as well.
Guess we will know if they either come out with something more substantial or the dude is found dead for an unknown reason in his cell in the next couple of weeks.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Under Portuguese law the statute of limitations is up after 15 years, which it will be after 3 May 2022. At the request of the German Braunsweig Prosecutors office they have made Brueckner an 'arguido' so that there are no legal difficulties in charging him. An arguido is a latin legal concept, as used in Italy, Spain, France and Portugal under Roman Law* which makes a person a formal suspect, which means they have the legal rights of an arrested person: the right to a lawyer and to remain silent (as Kate McCann did when she was an arguido.)
*Germany uses Romano-Germanic Law which is quite similar, so I am not sure if Germany also has the concept of 'arguido' German equivalent.
*Germany uses Romano-Germanic Law which is quite similar, so I am not sure if Germany also has the concept of 'arguido' German equivalent.
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Does that mean that someone who is not deemed "a formal suspect" -- in other words, everybody else -- does not have the right to a lawyer and to remain silent? That can't be right, can it?
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
The police can ask anybody they like to come in for questioning any time they like. If one of those persons is a real suspect (= probable cause they were involved in the crime in question) then a failure to let them know they are a suspect could prejudice any later trial.
Kate McCann was made an arguido. Was given fifty questions, of which I believe she answered only one. I dare say her lawyer advised her to keep shtum because what mother with a missing child wouldn't want to tell the police everything they know of the circumstances surrounding it? However, as an arguido (formal suspect), your words can be used against you in court and in any case the burden of proof is on the police and prosecutors, so the reasoning is, 'If they think I did it, let them prove it! It is not in my interest to help them convict me! (Which is what they are after, with their trick questions).'
So when the tabloids report the latest arguido, the German anti-social paedophhile offender (also recidivist burglar and thief) refused to answer the Portuguese police's questions as an arguido as to where he was on the night the little girl went missing, it is not really so strange he refuses to answer.
The papers report that the McCanns 'welcome' this development. I wonder if this is because they themselves can no longer come under suspicion. That has to be a relief, I guess.
And I assume that most people in most circumstances are free to decline the invitation if they want. "Arguido" sounds similar to the Miranda warning in the U.S.: "Anything you say...."
I note that "probable cause" is sufficient grounds to actually make an arrest. The standard for "arguido" is likely much less than that.
The Atheist
Psychopath
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I'd love to see a count of the number of black girls who have gone missing without international publicity since Madeleine was neglected by her parents so badly that it cost her her life.
Yes, all of them, obviously, but the number would be interesting to know.
A useful addendum would be how many of the black mothers were charged with child endangerment for leaving small children unsupervised, unlike the McCanns who have turned it into the only reality show longer than the Kardashians.
Yes, all of them, obviously, but the number would be interesting to know.
A useful addendum would be how many of the black mothers were charged with child endangerment for leaving small children unsupervised, unlike the McCanns who have turned it into the only reality show longer than the Kardashians.
Her parents will suffer horribly all their lives for their lapse of judgment. But I suspect that they are not the only parents who have left a child alone in a resort hotel room for a short time while they dined nearby. "Neglected so badly" isn't really a fair picture.
The Atheist
Psychopath
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Deservedly so.
These women were all arrested for leaving children alone:
https://www.yourtango.com/crime/sin...son-charged-after-leaving-kids-older-daughter
https://www.fox5ny.com/news/mom-arrested-for-leaving-children-alone-to-go-to-work
https://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/21/living/mom-arrested-left-girl-park-parents/index.html
Were the McCanns charged?
It's not just that she was a pretty white kid that had plenty of cute photos to use it was and is also a class thing. Nipping out for a boozy meal is OK when you are white, professionals in the UK, nipping out for a pint or two to the pub and abandoning your kids is the most heinous child neglect when you are chavs!
Interesting notion of strict liability.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
If the police ask you to go along, you go along. The point of being an arguido is that the police can now carry on investigating you at their leisure without having to arrest you formally. This does seem a little unfair because once you are arrested and charged, you and your lawyers are entitled to know what the evidence is against you. As an arguido, you don't know what they know.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
You have to remember that in the so-called 'latin' countries, the legal system is not adversarial as in the UK/USA Anglo-Saxon model, it is to do with a tribunal style court gathering as much information as possible, and this can take a ridiculous amount of time, as with the little boy murdered in France case. It is not enough to have enough evidence to formally charge you, it is to do with knowing as much as possible about the crime in the finest of detail.
Those are all in the US; how is that relevant for a British family in Spain?
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Comparisons are odious. Each case has its own individual merits. It has always been the way that that some cases grab the public's attention, whilst most, just merit a small paragraph in a provincial local newspaper, which nobody reads.
As an example, that Karen Matthews woman was a 'benefit-scrounger' scruffy n'er-do-well but got a LOT of publicity in the Shannon Matthews faked kidnap case. Then there was Damilola Taylor, 10, murdered, of Nigerian ethnicity who also received a MASSIVE amount of headlines.
People are intrigued by the McCann case because it is an intriguing riddle as to what happened to the little girl.
P.J. Denyer
Penultimate Amazing
The first chapter of Owen Jones' book "Chavs" is a very detailed comparison with the Shannon Matthews case from less than a year later, it's an interesting read.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Both cases became huge public interest because journalists smelt a rat and spun it as a 'whodunnit?' The McCanns aren't posh, they both come from ordinary working class backgrounds.
I note that in the U.S. you don't have to "go along" unless you are under arrest. And the police don't have to give you any special warning that they are investigating you unless/until they actually question you as a suspect.
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At least two of those cases are ridiculous. It's hard to believe that the charges regarding the 14-year-old and the 9-year-old (with a house key and a cell phone) could go very far. And all happened in U.S. cities, not a Spanish resort village. None are comparable to the McCanns.