Merged The Lies and Fears of Cholesterol and Statin PUSH/Our Brain Needs Cholesterol

[Caroline13]

The people have been SOLD a bill of fears and lies on cholesteroi and the Statin Drugs.

The brain needs cholesterol for one thing and with all the PUSH for statins. people are developing LOW cholesterol in their bodies and hence MORE DEmentia etc.

I don't believe my parents ever knew their cholesterol NUMBERS and they ate everything and lived into 90's and died with good minds.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...MIrbfX4MzH8QIVIQ2tBh0gRgFIEAAYAiAAEgKQT_D_BwE

I can count on the fact that NO ONE will read the history of cholesterol from WAP.

 

[theprestige]

There's no shortage of cholesterol in the modern human diet. The problem is entirely one of cholesterol surplus.

Caroline13, I don't think you've thought this through.

Also I don't accept your unevidenced and unprovable claims about your parents. Try harder. Argue better.

 

[Belz...]

The people have been SOLD a bill of fears and lies on cholesteroi and the Statin Drugs.

The "fear", as you call it, is too much cholesterol. It's the same problem with fat and sugar. Or water, in fact.

I don't believe my parents ever knew their cholesterol NUMBERS and they ate everything and lived into 90's and died with good minds.

Don't you know yet why anecdotes are worthless?

no one believes anything I've said here

Yeah, because you either have no evidence for your claims or present irrelevant or bad evidence when pressed. If you realised your mistake and strived to improve your methods and sources you would have much more success.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Believe what you want, no one believes anything I've said here, so why be any different. I know my life history, you know nothing about me.

And who said Cholesterol shortage...and my MD started testing Homocysteine levels some yrs back and we don't even look at cholesterol..BUT the mainstream docs are in love with cholesterol and their statins...and they probably get a good kickback on their push, more drugs pushed more $$$$ in their bank accounts.

Got any evidence for these vague claims?


Also, GET your keyboard FIXED. Your CAPSLOCK keeps GETTING stuck ON.

 

[Norman Alexander]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Homocysteine+

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Cholesterol, unlike statins, is essential to human life..

 

[gabeygoat]

A healthy body usually makes the cholesterol you need on it's own

 

[Caroline13]

Cholesterol, unlike statins, is essential to human life..

I agree, why do you say we are not coming from the same place. What am I missing with your statement?

I have plenty of cholesterol but my doc does not test and test for it, as I said she started testing homocysteine some yrs ago. Good Lord....

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I can count on the fact that NO ONE will read the history of cholesterol from WAP.

I read the article you linked to...

...and was shocked to find that several of the side effects described in it match my own. I had been taking cholesterol and statin pills for several years without problems, then about a year ago I started getting 'dizzy' spells, occasionally feeling like I was going to faint and possibly die. The first time it happened I was in lockdown and thought it was all in my head. Then the frequency increased until it was happening every few days. My brother was so concerned that he took me to the hospital where they kept me overnight for observation. They couldn't explain it.

Having determined that there probably wasn't anything life-threatening about my problem, I relaxed and just let it happen. Then I started getting severe muscle cramps, as well as tingling in the fingertips and toes (actually it felt more like needles being stuck in them). Finally I got severe pain in the left side of my neck for no apparent reason. The doctor couldn't explain these symptoms and basically dismissed them, but he was very concerned about my heart (which he said had a 'murmur'). They put a heart monitor on me to collect data for 24 hours. Apparently nothing unusual was found, but eventually (3 weeks ago) I was referred to a heart specialist who examined me and found nothing wrong with my heart!

And now for the weird bit. I was suspicious that the pills I was taking might have been causing it. I checked online to make sure they were the correct pill and dosage, but still had lingering doubts even as I continued taking them. The last time I saw the doctor (for my neck problem) he informed me that the pills I was taking were no longer available, and he prescribed a different brand. Guess what? That's right, no more dizzy spells! No more tingling hands and feet! I still get occasional muscle cramps, but not nearly as bad.

I am very skeptical of unproven anecdotes and reject all forms of woo, considering myself more rational and scientifically minded than the average person. So of course I trust that my doctor knows what he is talking about. But lately I am beginning to wonder...

The more I find out about it the less confident I am of these medications, and I worry that they might be doing me more harm than good. I recently bough a blood pressure meter so I can monitor my own health and gauge the effect of not taking them.

 

[Darat]

This thread has nothing to with vaccines nor your personal opinions about other members. Further off topic or personalisation comments will result in suspension.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Mojo]

BUT the mainstream docs are in love with cholesterol and their statins...and they probably get a good kickback on their push, more drugs pushed more $$$$ in their bank accounts.

The trouble with this conspiracy theory is that it can only work for countries with a healthcare model like the USA’s. When I tested high for cholesterol my doctor’s initial response was to tell me to change my diet and exercise more.

 

[Planigale]

The people have been SOLD a bill of fears and lies on cholesteroi and the Statin Drugs.

The brain needs cholesterol for one thing and with all the PUSH for statins. people are developing LOW cholesterol in their bodies and hence MORE DEmentia etc.

I don't believe my parents ever knew their cholesterol NUMBERS and they ate everything and lived into 90's and died with good minds.

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...MIrbfX4MzH8QIVIQ2tBh0gRgFIEAAYAiAAEgKQT_D_BwE

I can count on the fact that NO ONE will read the history of cholesterol from WAP.

This is an objectively measurable prediction. In fact people have done just that. Studies are fairly consistent with showing statin use reduces risk of dementia; thus your hypothesis is shown to be untrue.

For instance reduced risk of dementia following concussion
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2733673
(Should footballers be put on statins?)

There is a dose response relationship (always good to see), the bigger the dose and the longer the use the greater the reduction in risk of dementia (meta-analysis including more than 3 million people!).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6078755/

Another large study

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-24248-8

Will you consider that your assumption might be wrong since the facts contradict your ideas, or will you stick with your preconceptions and try and change the facts?

 

[Caroline13]

This is an objectively measurable prediction. In fact people have done just that. Studies are fairly consistent with showing statin use reduces risk of dementia; thus your hypothesis is shown to be untrue.

For instance reduced risk of dementia following concussion
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2733673
(Should footballers be put on statins?)

There is a dose response relationship (always good to see), the bigger the dose and the longer the use the greater the reduction in risk of dementia (meta-analysis including more than 3 million people!).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6078755/

Another large study

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-24248-8

Will you consider that your assumption might be wrong since the facts contradict your ideas, or will you stick with your preconceptions and try and change the facts?

Statins reduce cholesterol and the brain needs cholesterol and hence more dementia in the last 20-30 yrs.

Depends whose study to want to trust....the drug company's or or or or...

Statins have put a LOT more $$$$ in doc's pockets...

 

[bruto]

Statins reduce cholesterol and the brain needs cholesterol and hence more dementia in the last 20-30 yrs.

Depends whose study to want to trust....the drug company's or or or or...

Statins have put a LOT more $$$$ in doc's pockets...

If you were actually to expend a little thought about what you post, you might notice that "reducing" is not the same as "eliminating." Statins reduce some cholesterol from the dangerously high levels that can cause known harm, to reasonable levels that do not.

Mind you, I'm not a rabid fan of statins everywhere. I think they can be over-prescribed and that in some cases, dietary change might be preferable, and might be enough to tip the balance. But it's also true that some people (and be glad if you're not one of them) simply cannot control excessive cholesterol through diet and other less bothersome means.

Of course I realize that actually knowing what you're talking about may not be your strong suit, but I do not think it would do you harm to broaden your research a bit.

 

[Caroline13]

If you were actually to expend a little thought about what you post, you might notice that "reducing" is not the same as "eliminating." Statins reduce some cholesterol from the dangerously high levels that can cause known harm, to reasonable levels that do not.

Mind you, I'm not a rabid fan of statins everywhere. I think they can be over-prescribed and that in some cases, dietary change might be preferable, and might be enough to tip the balance. But it's also true that some people (and be glad if you're not one of them) simply cannot control excessive cholesterol through diet and other less bothersome means.

Of course I realize that actually knowing what you're talking about may not be your strong suit, but I do not think it would do you harm to broaden your research a bit.

And YOU do some research on Cholesterol NOT being the culprit for heart disease. What came first instilling the cholesterol fear or the drug.


There are MANY ways to reduce cholesterol in one's body if that is a fear like it is in the population, the pharma and govt have done a great sales job. Billlions more for pharma.

Don't think about recommending that people take care of their health with good nutrition and more FREE ways to keep healthy.

Like Magnesium, it's a huge epidemic in the world that millions are deficient.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Statins reduce cholesterol and the brain needs cholesterol...

Reducing is not the same as eliminating. Can you really not understand that just because you need something, it doesn't mean that you can never have too much of it. The same applies to vitamin D.

...and hence more dementia in the last 20-30 yrs.

A claim not supported by scientific evidence.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I get sick of hearing anecdotes are unproven blah blah blah, what else WE GOT...our own experiences.

That's like saying you're sick of hearing that a court of law requires physical evidence to convict a defendant. If courts worked according to your logic, all that would be necessary to convict someone would be for one person to say they heard from a guy that he did it.

Imagine this conversation:

"This anonymous old lady on the internet said she's been taking GSE for years and hasn't been diagnosed with cancer, so I'm just going to accept that as proof that it prevents cancer."

"Lots of people don't get cancer without ever having taken GSE. How do you know she would have gotten cancer without it? How do you know that there arent people who take GSE and get cancer anyway?"

"But... but... the old lady said!"

Honestly, only an idiot would take a single anonymous anecdote like yours and stop using modern medicine because of it.

100's publish their own research and they all have their agendas on it all, especially the pharma crowd.

And what's your agenda? It seems to me that you, like most other conspiracy theorists, are motivated by a need to present yourself as having superior knowledge to the experts.

 

[Darat]

Thread closed, most of the members participating after the mod box warning will be suspended for 24 hours.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

ETA:

Thread reopened. The warning about being suspended if the mod box warning is ignored is still in effect.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[casebro]

This is an objectively measurable prediction. In fact people have done just that. Studies are fairly consistent with showing statin use reduces risk of dementia; thus your hypothesis is shown to be untrue.

For instance reduced risk of dementia following concussion
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2733673
(Should footballers be put on statins?)

There is a dose response relationship (always good to see), the bigger the dose and the longer the use the greater the reduction in risk of dementia (meta-analysis including more than 3 million people!).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6078755/

Another large study

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-24248-8

Will you consider that your assumption might be wrong since the facts contradict your ideas, or will you stick with your preconceptions and try and change the facts?

I looked at the last study. Looks like dementia effects 1% of the 3M subjects. Statins may cut the risk by maybe 40%. In other words, Statins do NOTHING for 99.6% of the population. Not worth any even minor side effects.

Similar numbers hold for statins and heart attacks, and hypertension treatments too.

 

[Planigale]

I looked at the last study. Looks like dementia effects 1% of the 3M subjects. Statins may cut the risk by maybe 40%. In other words, Statins do NOTHING for 99.6% of the population. Not worth any even minor side effects.

Similar numbers hold for statins and heart attacks, and hypertension treatments too.

I am not arguing that statins should be a treatment to prevent dementia. Just that they do not cause an increase in dementia. Obviously policy about statin use may differ. Statins may be used as primary prevention in people who have never had a heart attack or stroke (especially if diabetic which put one at a very high risk), or as secondary prevention in those who have already had a heart attack or stroke; the risk / benefit ratio obviously differs in each group. In the UK statins are only used for elevated cholesterol where diet has failed. Most of the cholesterol in the body is made by the body and does not come from diet. It is a fallacy to think that everyone with an elevated cholesterol can return cholesterol to normal levels just with diet. Those being considered for primary prevention are riak scored e.g. with QRISK 3 and those with a greater than 10% risk of an event in the next ten years would be given life style advice (as would those with lower risks) and considered for a statin, particularly if lifestyle advice failed to reduce cholesterol levels.

Public health interventions like vaccines and statins are difficult, people take them without knowing if they are the 1:10 (arbitrary number) who benefit, or the 9:10 who would never have had a heart attack in the next ten years. Or the 1:1000 (arbitrary number) who will be harmed. Overall for a national service such as in the UK the population may benefit from appropriate widespread use of statins since the rate of disability due to stroke and healthy lives lost due to heart attacks may fall, fewer people are left as carers, tax intake is greater and costs to the nation in terms of caring for the disabled are less. So regardless of whether a pharmaceutical company profits it may be cost efficient to promote appropriate statin use.