The JREF is not an atheist organization

I just want to call JREF members' attention to Science for 15 August. On page 897 is a great, but brief interview with Phil Plait (whose name describes him in French).
 
leo-rcc said:
I am one of those 99% sure atheists, because 100% certainty does not exist. The probability of any deity in my humble opinion is very low. So in theory I should be agnostic, but in practice I consider myself an atheist. One that 1 to 7 scale a 6.

But who knows, someone might present overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I am sure that evidence will not include scripture though.
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Aloow me to help you reconcile those beliefs.

You do not believe in god. Therefore you are an atheist.

You do not believe in certain knowledge about god. Therefore you are an agnostic.

In total, you are an agnostic atheist, as are most atheists/agnostics on this forum (whether they admit it or not:p)
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
Is this a correct statement and should it have any effect on our approach to the public face of organized skepticism? If it is not a correct statement, should the JREF change its mission statement to reflect this fact.
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So... The JREF is not an atheist organization, huh?

Well, you could have fooled me!

JREF Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
Religious Demographics of the JREF R&P Forum

Christianity (Catholicism)|6|1.79%
Christianity (Orthodoxy) |0|0%
Christianity (Protestantism) |11|3.27%
Christianity (Other) |7|2.08%
Islam (Shia) |1|0.30%
Islam (Sunni) |0|0%
Islam (Other) |0|0%
Judaism |3|0.89%
Wicca/Paganism |3|0.89%
Buddhism |2|0.60%
Taoism / Shinto / Other East Asian Religion |1|0.30%
Sikhism / Jainism / Other Indus Valley Religion |1|0.30%
Bahai'i Faith |1|0.30%
Mormonism (all sects) |1|0.30%
Watchtower Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) |0|0%
Scientology / Other New Age Religion |3|0.89%
Tribal / Indigenous Religion |3|0.89%
Deism / Pantheism / Unitarianism / Other Universalistic Religion |12|3.57%
Atheism / Agnosticism | 263 | 78.27%
Besides myself, my religion only contains adherents on planet X. |18|5.36%
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That says nothing about the religious affiliation of the JREF, only that of the people on the forum who choose to respond to that particular poll question.

Forum <> JREF.
 
Randi has also stated he thinks god beliefs are some of the worst woo around. He said it in a Swift comment not very long ago.
 
six7s said:
So... The JREF is not an atheist organization, huh?

Well, you could have fooled me!
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Was there nothing good on TV last night?

But as Arth noted, the forum does not equal the JREF and in the most recent JREF newsletter Jeff Wagg again noted that JREF is a entity dedicated to critical thinking and skepticism and is not an atheist organization like American Atheists and the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

I'll leave my usual "uncle tom" comments left unsaid in this post.
 
Is necro-ing a long-deceased thread evidence of the supernatural? Discuss.

(Extra credit: is doing it while handwaving away the existence a full 21.73% of respondents at all valid?)
 
The JREF is not an atheist organization, as James Randi has said. But I guess I don't really understand skeptics who are religious. Those of you who aren't religious, do you feel that religious skeptics are applying skepticism to everything except their religion? Those of you who are religious, can you explain how you deal with what I would see as dissonant beliefs? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, I'm new to the JREF forum so I'm not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere. I'm still figuring out how to navigate the different sections of the forum so if there's already an existing thread, I'd appreciate if someone could point me in the direction.
 
rollickingsunshine said:
The JREF is not an atheist organization, as James Randi has said. But I guess I don't really understand skeptics who are religious. Those of you who aren't religious, do you feel that religious skeptics are applying skepticism to everything except their religion? Those of you who are religious, can you explain how you deal with what I would see as dissonant beliefs? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, I'm new to the JREF forum so I'm not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere. I'm still figuring out how to navigate the different sections of the forum so if there's already an existing thread, I'd appreciate if someone could point me in the direction.
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Probably been discussed more than once, here is one thread, have fun reading all the 2132 posts of it.....:D

O.K., the thread derailed a bit, so not all posts are on topic, but I´m sure quite everything that can be said on this topic is mentioned in there.
 
rollickingsunshine said:
The JREF is not an atheist organization, as James Randi has said. But I guess I don't really understand skeptics who are religious. Those of you who aren't religious, do you feel that religious skeptics are applying skepticism to everything except their religion? Those of you who are religious, can you explain how you deal with what I would see as dissonant beliefs? I'm genuinely curious.

Also, I'm new to the JREF forum so I'm not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere. I'm still figuring out how to navigate the different sections of the forum so if there's already an existing thread, I'd appreciate if someone could point me in the direction.
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:welcome3

Theism vs critical thinking is a frequent topic here, but no matter. Start a new thread if you want to discuss it. If we never went over material twice, the forum would be rather silent most days.
 
rollickingsunshine said:
The JREF is not an atheist organization, as James Randi has said. But I guess I don't really understand skeptics who are religious. Those of you who aren't religious, do you feel that religious skeptics are applying skepticism to everything except their religion? Those of you who are religious, can you explain how you deal with what I would see as dissonant beliefs? I'm genuinely curious.
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Well, there are those who just believe in belief or find some weird comfort in having an afterlife or a god or something similar. My best friend admits that she believes because it is comforting, because it is difficult for her to let go of the belief in god. She is not religious in any way, nor she adheres to any other woo. Most probably because she was raised quite strictly, and in a small Greek village where there is always a lot of religious brainwashing.
 
Believing in Christianity is not very different from believing in ghosts, psychics, 2012 superstition, etc. at all.
 
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Beat said:
Believing in Christianity is not very different from believing in ghosts, psychics, 2012 superstition, etc. at all.
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Believing in Christianity involves believing in ghosts and psychics
 
Beat said:
Believing in Christianity is not very different from believing in ghosts, psychics, 2012 superstition, etc. at all.
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Why focus on Christianity in your post? If you're a militant atheist, shouldn't you have disdain for all religions and have mentioned them?

Part of the reason I started this thread is to point out that many militant atheists in the West who have ostensibly embraced skepticism have done so because they've had crappy experiences with Christianity and then myopically focus their anger and frustration on it. That's as all well and good as ex-Hindus or ex-Scientologists having a beef, but we, in the West, still live in a world dominated by Christianity and need to recruit critical thinkers and skeptics who are Christian... and Hindu, Muslim, Scientologists, etc.

We're better served by attracting religious believers who think homeopathy, UFOlogy, and yes, ghosts, phsychics, 2012, etc. are bunk than by spurning them.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
Why focus on Christianity in your post? ...
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Well except for the occasional Jew and Muslim which have related religions, we don't have many people on this forum arguing that Shiva or Pele are real. And the Buddhists on the board typically deny they believe in any gods.

Care to remind us which gods are defended by theists on the board beside the Judeo-Christian gods?

UnrepentantSinner said:
...

We're better served by attracting religious believers who think homeopathy, UFOlogy, and yes, ghosts, phsychics, 2012, etc. are bunk than by spurning them.
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That is debated here often. I don't agree. God beliefs are incompatible with teaching critical thinking skills. And it's hard to argue we shouldn't be teaching skills rather than only debunking one woo at a time.
 
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I find it utterly amusing how we non-believers are not allowed to say anything about religion with the risk of "hurting someones feelings", this while the believers are fully allowed and often encouraged to tell us that we're going to hell.

I also find it amusing that you're a "militant atheist" as soon as you have something to say against it, while the army is vastly a religious outfit in most western countries.

The jokes take no end.

Edit: Also, JREF should indeed become an atheist organization, and take out the trash. Sorry.
 
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The JREF* is not such a large organization that it can afford to make itself smaller by systematically excluding classes of people.


  • There are people who think critically about all things.
  • There are people who think critically about most things.
  • There are people who think critically about some things.
  • There are people who we aren't sure if they think or not.

Each of the latter three classes of people can be taught to "move up" to the next class. The teaching isn't always easy. Some people aren't willing to listen. But it's hard to say that climbing the 'ladder' isn't progress, and if the people at the top of the ladder are vigorously kicking the ladder away and telling people below "You're not thinking critically enough to hang out with us"... what motivation is that to even WANT to join the people at the top of the ladder? After all, they seem like a bunch of dicks.

What if Robert Lancaster were a Christian?** Would you de facto exclude him? Or would you make a special pleading by saying "the work he does is important enough that we can overlook this"? Think carefully.



* Replace with 'skepticism', 'humanist movement', or whatever, as appropriate.

** As far as I know he's an atheist. If I'm wrong and he's not, that makes this question even more appropriate...
 
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