The Jan. 6 Investigation

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kevbo said:
:thumbsup: This is very much how I see the current situation here in the good old USA. I am a veteran and I am slack-jawed every time a veteran is interviewed who supports Trump. Vigilance, calling out the lies at every opportunity, and getting out the vote seem to be the tools we have to attempt to avoid a furtherance of the right's takeover of American politics. The Dems need to be working on voter enrollment as hard as they did for Obama and Biden starting now. Then when the time comes, get out the vote campaigns. The Dems outnumber the Repubs, reach out to like minded Independents and the Repubs will be defeated. But watch out for violence after the election if Trump keeps up his march to madness.

Just my 2 cents.
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I'd add as hard as Stacey Abrams did in Georgia, too. Why do you think the Republicans hate her so much?
 
Warp12 said:
So, I wouldn't pin all of your hopes on this investigation. Of course, there is more time and plenty more mud to sling...so we will see.
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Funny you should say that. My hopes for this investigation isn't changing the outcome of the midterms, it is exposing the weaknesses that made 1/6 possible, and determining if anyone was criminally complicit in aiding or instigating the riot. If that happens, and Congress changes hands anyway, I'd still call it worth it.
 
My hope for the Jan 6th commission is to document as much as possible about what happened as possible for posterity, before it will be hushed up by Republicans.
Everything else is gravy.
 
Warp12 said:
There is nothing to address, because I am not claiming the Biden Administration is the cause of the inflation. I am simply commenting on how easy it is to blame it on them, and how most people will likely buy into it.

So, you can whine all you want about who is really to blame. It doesn't matter. It is about who most voters will place the blame upon.
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It may not move the general public, but isn't it still valuable to talk about what's accurate and not just what people will think is true? At least here, which is supposed to be a refuge of evidence based discussion. Why shrug it off with noting that people will largely believe as their political tendencies lead them? We knew that going in.
 
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gnome said:
Funny you should say that. My hopes for this investigation isn't changing the outcome of the midterms, it is exposing the weaknesses that made 1/6 possible, and determining if anyone was criminally complicit in aiding or instigating the riot. If that happens, and Congress changes hands anyway, I'd still call it worth it.
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IMO, if the House changes hands, the Repugnicans will almost certainly put an end to the 1/6 committee's work. Before that happens, Merrick Garland needs to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate 1/6 and all the committee's documents and findings can be handed over to him/her so that the work is guaranteed to continue for at least the next two years.
 
smartcooky said:
IMO, if the House changes hands, the Repugnicans will almost certainly put an end to the 1/6 committee's work. Before that happens, Merrick Garland needs to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate 1/6 and all the committee's documents and findings can be handed over to him/her so that the work is guaranteed to continue for at least the next two years.
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Personally, I would rather hope that it's settled, fully and properly, long before the next Presidential election. Political impact is not actually among my concerns there, though. If it helps spur on backlash against the Anti-Americans hiding behind the shield of the Republican Party, that would certainly be a welcome silver lining, though.


gnome said:
It may not move the general public, but isn't it still valuable to talk about what's accurate and not just what people will think is true? At least here, which is supposed to be a refuge of evidence based discussion. Why shrug it off with noting that people will largely believe as their political tendencies lead them? We knew that going in.
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Likely, for the same reason that Warp12 is happy to justify and excuse plenty of wrongdoing.
 
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smartcooky said:
IMO, if the House changes hands, the Repugnicans will almost certainly put an end to the 1/6 committee's work. Before that happens, Merrick Garland needs to appoint a Special Counsel to investigate 1/6 and all the committee's documents and findings can be handed over to him/her so that the work is guaranteed to continue for at least the next two years.
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Absolutely because the Alternative to a Special Counsel is we start taking up donations to Purchase a slightly used guillotine and Prepare for our version of the French revolution.
 
Stacyhs said:
I'd add as hard as Stacey Abrams did in Georgia, too. Why do you think the Republicans hate her so much?
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I keep saying this, but I think they're going to put their money on the wrong things anyway. The best candidates in the world won't help if the voters can't vote. The D party should be pouring its resources into voter empowerment. Find out exactly what the suppression laws are, fight them but also make doubly sure that whatever attempt is made is met with compliance. Need a photo ID? Party pays for photo ID's instead of TV ads for candidates. Need something else? Get something else. Rules about helping people, giving rides, handing out drinks? Find them out, get them in writing, and find a way to comply. Don't print campaign posters before you've printed posters attacking the attack on democracy. Print brochures telling people exactly what they may and may not do. And if there are rules, make sure the others follow them too.

Tell people they need to do this or democracy is dead. When freedom from segregation was the issue, people woke up and rallied. I think it could be done again, but it needs to be done and done soon.

Stop wringing your hands and make a fist.
 
bruto said:
I keep saying this, but I think they're going to put their money on the wrong things anyway. The best candidates in the world won't help if the voters can't vote. The D party should be pouring its resources into voter empowerment. Find out exactly what the suppression laws are, fight them but also make doubly sure that whatever attempt is made is met with compliance. Need a photo ID? Party pays for photo ID's instead of TV ads for candidates. Need something else? Get something else. Rules about helping people, giving rides, handing out drinks? Find them out, get them in writing, and find a way to comply. Don't print campaign posters before you've printed posters attacking the attack on democracy. Print brochures telling people exactly what they may and may not do. And if there are rules, make sure the others follow them too.

Tell people they need to do this or democracy is dead. When freedom from segregation was the issue, people woke up and rallied. I think it could be done again, but it needs to be done and done soon.

Stop wringing your hands and make a fist.
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Isn't it kind of a BS claim that democracy is dead? If it wasn't dead between 1788 - 1964, it is pretty hard to claim it will die now.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Isn't it kind of a BS claim that democracy is dead? If it wasn't dead between 1788 - 1964, it is pretty hard to claim it will die now.
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I didn't say democracy is dead. I said it's going to be if these trends continue, and I believe that is the case. And as for whether it was dead between 1788 and 1964, it sure as hell was for some. People marched, went to prison, bled and died contradicting your flippant dismissal of the obvious.
 
bruto said:
I didn't say democracy is dead. I said it's going to be if these trends continue, and I believe that is the case. And as for whether it was dead between 1788 and 1964, it sure as hell was for some. People marched, went to prison, bled and died contradicting your flippant dismissal of the obvious.
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No need to get too wrapped up in an argument like that. It's much like someone saying that if a large meteor were to hit, that then the earth would be doomed and someone else disagreeing with a counterargument that the worst that that meteor might do is to cause the demise of all plant and animal life on earth, but the planet itself would still be there.
 
Aridas said:
No need to get too wrapped up in an argument like that. It's much like someone saying that if a large meteor were to hit, that then the earth would be doomed and someone else disagreeing with a counterargument that the worst that that meteor might do is to cause the demise of all plant and animal life on earth, but the planet itself would still be there.
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I have made that argument
 
Trump illegally took 15 boxes of White House records to Florida

National Archives says Trump took 15 boxes of White House records to Florida, documents that were supposed to be turned over to the National Archives.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...5-boxes-white-house-records-florida-rcna15260

This is on top of all the documents he has illegally destroyed, attempted to destroy, or ripped up.

Only people who are trying hide things destroy official documents
 
smartcooky said:
National Archives says Trump took 15 boxes of White House records to Florida, documents that were supposed to be turned over to the National Archives.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...5-boxes-white-house-records-florida-rcna15260

This is on top of all the documents he has illegally destroyed, attempted to destroy, or ripped up.

Only people who are trying hide things destroy official documents
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You beat me to it. Also, a quibble. It's not only that set. There's also, for example, the flagrant scofflaws. Trump's fairly certainly both a flagrant scofflaw and trying to hide things, however, so it's a bit of a moot point to make here.
 
smartcooky said:
National Archives says Trump took 15 boxes of White House records to Florida, documents that were supposed to be turned over to the National Archives.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/do...5-boxes-white-house-records-florida-rcna15260

This is on top of all the documents he has illegally destroyed, attempted to destroy, or ripped up.

Only people who are trying hide things destroy official documents
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And apparently the law he broke (Federal Records Act) is punishable by never being allowed to run for office again.

Lawrence O'Donnell interview of Goldman On Trump Keeping And Destroying WH Docs: What's He Hiding

Goldman:
Daniel Goldman, who served as the House Impeachment inquiry majority counsel for Trump’s first impeachment, joins Lawrence O’Donnell to discuss the message the Justice Department sends to future presidents if the Presidential Records Act isn’t enforced.
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Skeptic Ginger said:
And apparently the law he broke (Federal Records Act) is punishable by never being allowed to run for office again.

Lawrence O'Donnell interview of Goldman On Trump Keeping And Destroying WH Docs: What's He Hiding

Goldman:
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I agree with what Goldman and O'Donnell both stressed: if Trump is never held to account for his many illegal acts, then we are indeed admitting that he is above the law. What a horrific precedent to set for future presidents. The saying that Lady Justice is Blind would take on a new meaning: not that she is impartial and all are equal before the law, but that she is blind to the criminal acts of presidents. One step closer to authoritarian rule.
 
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