The Jan. 6 Investigation

[Ziggurat]

You think him having an affair is the same as the Prez busting nuts on his young intern, while basically in the oval office? I don't.

Not to mention, rightfully getting impeached and disbarred...

No. Clinton wasn't impeached or disbarred because of the affair. Nor should he have been. He was impeached and disbarred because he lied under oath.

 

[Crossbow]

Because it was an employer/employee thing too. That complicates everything. But even that wasn't the real issue.

Indeed. You are quite correct.

It is very wrong for a supervisor to get romantically involved with one of his employees.

Except that it also became a topic in a civil suit, and Clinton lied under oath about it. And it's the lying under oath that made it more than a private civil affair. You're familiar with the phrase, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up? Clinton/Lewinsky was a textbook example. Clinton really has no one to blame but himself for that.

Again. You are quite correct.

After all, Clinton studied the Watergate Affair closely, and he came to the same conclusion about the real trouble being the cover-up of the crime as opposed to the crime itself.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Much like... Biden - 1 woman with rather questionable trustworthiness accuses him of sexual misconduct. Gets massive attention from media.
Trump - Dozens of women of varying trustworthiness accuse him of sexual misconduct and he himself has repeatedly made it perfectly clear that he engages in sexual misconduct without shame. Cursory attention from media - it's not really either a surprise or particularly controversial, after all.

Biden touches a woman's hair and he's 'sick' or hugs a little girl and he's a pedophile. Trump brags about grabbing women's genitals, is accused of rape by a credible woman, and has over 20 women accuse him of varying degrees of sexual assault or inappropriateness and he gets elected president. Now we know why he didn't run as a Democrat.

I've said it before. The difference is Biden has actual standards of base human decency and Trump doesn't, so Trump isn't committing the only sin the Proudly Wrong Trolling Right think exists, have standards that you don't live up to a strawman version of 100% of the time.

In their sick, twisted, warped minds going "I'm going to try to do good" and then sometimes failing to achieve some 100% perfect state of that is a bigger sin then just being a full on psychopath who promises us nothing.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Jesus ******* Christ the Right really is ready to drive this whole country off of a ******* cliff because 20 years ago Bill Clinton lied about getting a blumpkin'.

Watching idiotic sad sacks pretend that lying about something that was never our business to begin with and lying about ordering a violent attack on the nation's capital during a vote certification are the same would be funny as to how stupid it is if not for the real world consequences.

Trump doesn't get a "LOL we have to look the other way to make it even" on Jan 6th because of Clinton.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Jesus ******* Christ the Right really is ready to drive this whole country off of a ******* cliff because 20 years ago Bill Clinton lied about getting a blumpkin'.

Watching idiotic sad sacks pretend that lying about something that was never our business to begin with and lying about ordering a violent attack on the nation's capital during a vote certification are the same would be funny as to how stupid it is if not for the real world consequences.

Trump doesn't get a "LOL we have to look the other way to make it even" on Jan 6th because of Clinton.

At best, the behavior of Clinton in office is disqualifying maladministration of the executive branch and the administrative state. He created an incredibly toxic work environment.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Jesus ******* Christ the Right really is ready to drive this whole country off of a ******* cliff because 20 years ago Bill Clinton lied about getting a blumpkin'.

Watching idiotic sad sacks pretend that lying about something that was never our business to begin with and lying about ordering a violent attack on the nation's capital during a vote certification are the same would be funny as to how stupid it is if not for the real world consequences.

Trump doesn't get a "LOL we have to look the other way to make it even" on Jan 6th because of Clinton.

And the felonies the trump campaign committed to cover up stormy daniels are of course totally irrelevant.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

"No puppet, no puppet. You're the puppet!"

Yeah, those Lincoln-Douglas debates were something else.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Jesus ******* Christ the Right really is ready to drive this whole country off of a ******* cliff because 20 years ago Bill Clinton lied about getting a blumpkin'.
Watching idiotic sad sacks pretend that lying about something that was never our business to begin with and lying about ordering a violent attack on the nation's capital during a vote certification are the same would be funny as to how stupid it is if not for the real world consequences.

Trump doesn't get a "LOL we have to look the other way to make it even" on Jan 6th because of Clinton.

I was not aware the Clinton scandal had a scatalogical element.

 

[Ziggurat]

Watching idiotic sad sacks pretend that lying about something that was never our business to begin with

That's not how it works. The court decides what the court is entitled to know, you don't get to make that decision for the court and then lie to the court about it.

and lying about ordering a violent attack on the nation's capital during a vote certification

That would indeed be more serious.

I don't think that actually happened, though. Certainly his public statements from the podium at his rally don't constitute ordering a violent attack.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's not how it works. The court decides what the court is entitled to know, you don't get to make that decision for the court and then lie to the court about it.

It has to get to the courts first. Dump kept that at bay for decades with delays, bribes, paying off some lawsuits and as POTUS with controlling the DoJ.

That would indeed be more serious.

I don't think that actually happened, though. Certainly his public statements from the podium at his rally don't constitute ordering a violent attack.

Really? You mean his podium statements on Jan 6 where he said to the crowd, "fight like hell or you won't have a country"? And, "I'll be with you"?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised you are turning a blind eye to this.


Dump threw Giuliani under the bus in regards to the 5 states who sent fake electors to the National Archives. So Dump will get off on that one.

Hard to say about the tax cheating in NY, we'll have to see how that develops: a civil or criminal case.

When it comes to charges of attempted election interference in Georgia, he's toast on that one.

And as for the drafted order for the military to seize voting machines, I'll wait to see what the upcoming public House hearings on the insurrection shows.

 

[Ziggurat]

It has to get to the courts first.

And for Clinton, it did.

Dump kept that at bay for decades with delays, bribes, paying off some lawsuits and as POTUS with controlling the DoJ.

Settling out of court isn't a bribe. And his "control" of the DOJ didn't really protect him, as the farce of the Mueller investigation (premised on a hoax dosier) demonstrated.

Really? You mean his podium statements on Jan 6 where he said to the crowd, "fight like hell or you won't have a country"? And, "I'll be with you"?

Yes, really. "Fight" is commonly used to refer to nonviolent actions. And Trump also told people to be peaceful. If you're trying to base this on what he said at the podium, you've got no legal case whatsoever.

Hard to say about the tax cheating in NY

It's dragged on long enough that I doubt the results will be very serious for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets hit with a large bill, but if you're hoping for anything criminal, don't hold your breath.

When it comes to charges of attempted election interference in Georgia, he's toast on that one.

I doubt it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Settling out of court isn't a bribe. And his "control" of the DOJ didn't really protect him, as the farce of the Mueller investigation (premised on a hoax dosier) demonstrated.

No but bribing the FL AG was.

The rest of your post just digs your heel in.

 

[bruto]

I did get a chuckle out of that joke.

I've had some affairs in my youth. But I wouldn't consider them on the same level as getting sucked off in the oval office restroom by my young intern. I mean, I think you expect a little more from the President.

I guess Clinton is better because he is only deemed two out of the three, in certain crowds?

Certainly, having an affair and divorcing your wife while she's in the hospital for her cancer is far more stylish.

edit: actually it seems she divorced him. Still three marriages and cheating on two is not exactly a great record.

 

[tyr_13]

And for Clinton, it did.



Settling out of court isn't a bribe. And his "control" of the DOJ didn't really protect him, as the farce of the Mueller investigation (premised on a hoax dosier) demonstrated.


Yes, really. "Fight" is commonly used to refer to nonviolent actions. And Trump also told people to be peaceful. If you're trying to base this on what he said at the podium, you've got no legal case whatsoever.



It's dragged on long enough that I doubt the results will be very serious for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets hit with a large bill, but if you're hoping for anything criminal, don't hold your breath.



I doubt it.

Either you are incapable of accurately assessing evidence or you're not doing so honestly because you endorse the criminal activity shown.

The GOP is fine with using government resources to extort foreign powers to interfere in our elections, the interference of foreign powers in our elections, and of course, subverting our elections. It's sad but unsurprising that you are too.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Wow would you look at that we're back to arguing base reality just to get back to the original wrong statement yet again.

Trump's involvement in Jan 6 is a fact. It's not up for honest debate, only troll stalling.

 

[Ziggurat]

Trump's involvement in Jan 6 is a fact.

That word is doing a whole lot of work.

Trump will not be charged criminally for anything he said publicly on January 6. I don't expect any true bombshells to emerge.

 

[smartcooky]

Certainly, having an affair and divorcing your wife while she's in the hospital for her cancer is far more stylish.

Well its her fault! She's a witch - she turned him into a newt - and he didn't get better!!

 

[Crossbow]

Certainly, having an affair and divorcing your wife while she's in the hospital for her cancer is far more stylish.

Over the years I have noticed that Republicans will quickly trot out various moralistic themes whenever there is a Democrat who is acting less than completely moralistic.

However, once the Democrat in question is out of the picture, then these various Republican moralistic pretensions quickly trot out of sight.

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That would indeed be more serious.

I don't think that actually happened, though. Certainly his public statements from the podium at his rally don't constitute ordering a violent attack.

"Certainly"? I don' think so, Lucy. You're falling for Trump's tactic of not directly saying what he wants as to leave plausible deniability. As Michael Cohen put it in his testimony to Congress:

"He doesn't give you questions, he doesn't give you orders. He speaks in a code, and I understand the code because I've been around him for a decade."

Of course, Trump did not directly instruct his supporters to attack the Capitol, stop official proceedings and threaten members of Congress until they agreed to keep Trump in power, despite the election results. That is not how he talks. In the past, Trump has said that, “I did not make a statement that, ‘You have to do this or I’m not going to give you A.’ I wouldn’t do that.” We know from former Trump attorney Michael Cohen that Trump does not like to say things explicitly when they might get him into trouble. Instead, he prefers to communicate indirectly.

As my research describes, this is the way that mafia bosses like to talk. They don’t want to say things directly when those things could be used against them, by eavesdropping law enforcement agencies or by other criminals. As I wrote here in November 2019, when Ambassador Gordon Sondland was testifying to a House committee about Trump’s indirectness, when both parties to the conversation knew that Trump was withholding funding for Ukraine, a threat didn’t have to be made directly. Instead, it was in the subtext: It’s a very, very good relationship with Ukraine. It would be a terrible shame if something happened to it, could be readily understood by both parties.

Ambiguity makes it hard to prove intent
There is a reason why mob bosses prefer ambiguous language: it makes it harder to prove charges against them. The same is plausibly true for Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/02/28/how-trump-speaks-like-mob-boss/

Trump knew exactly what he was doing and it worked:

An ABC News investigation into the nearly 200 accused rioters facing federal charges for their alleged involvement at the Capitol -- based on court filings, military records, interviews, and available news reports-- found that at least fifteen individuals who stormed the building have since said that they acted based on Trump's encouragement, including some of those accused of the most violent and serious crimes.
"I believed I was following the instructions of former President Trump," said Garret Miller

Robert Bauer told FBI Agents in an interview that he "marched to the U.S. Capitol because President Trump said to do so,"

"He heard the words of the president. He believed them. He genuinely believed him," Jacob Chansley's lawyer, Al Watkins, told ABC News in an interview. "He thought the president was walking with him."

Robert Sanford, a Pennsylvania man who is accused of throwing a fire extinguisher at an officer, told investigators he had "followed the President's instructions and gone to the Capitol,"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/president-trump-dozen-capitol-rioters-trumps-guidance/story?id=75757601

 

[Stacyhs]

Certainly, having an affair and divorcing your wife while she's in the hospital for her cancer is far more stylish.

edit: actually it seems she divorced him. Still three marriages and cheating on two is not exactly a great record.

Corrections: She wasn't in the hospital for cancer; she had a benign tumor removed. Gingrich divorced her; she fought the divorce. And the divorce had been initiate well before her hospital stay. But Gingrich is still a POS.

https://www.factcheck.org/2011/12/the-gingrich-divorce-myth/