The Jan. 6 Investigation

Status
Not open for further replies.
Stacyhs said:
Don't tie differing political views to integrity.
Click to expand...

I don't know what this means, but I generally try not to wed integrity to any particular political ideology. I also tend to think integrity is a tad over-rated as one can be "true" to terrible beliefs. The same goes for "courage," as soldiers have been known to bravely fight for the wrong side in a war.

But she's proven herself to have integrity and courage to be willing to stand up and be a voice of sanity in a party that has gone off the rails into cuckoo land. I give her credit for that. And Adam Kinzinger, too.
Click to expand...

This is pretty silly. As noted, she gets some credit for opposing her traditional coalition. The same could be said for vaccinated liberals who loudly oppose vaccine mandates on the grounds they violate bodily autonomy. In terms of integrity, Cheney consistently remains true to some of her values -- like bombing the absolute **** out of countries. Practically unwavering. But opposing coups is a minimum expectation. "That's what you're supposed to do you dumb, muthafucka!" It's not the floor; it's the basement. We've had politicians who wuved slavery, but still supported peaceful transitions of power.

Like many others in the Greed Over People Party, even Kevin McCarthy initially came out against the coup. There are Republicans terrified of secret audio recordings that could be leaked documenting flashes of knee-jerk basic decency/Trump opposition. Courage is often deemed the most important virtue because it makes all of the others possible. If Cheney bravely loses re-election, she'll just have to make ends meet as a lobbyist for the arms industry, or a talking head on CNN.
 
Cain said:
I don't know what this means, but I generally try not to wed integrity to any particular political ideology. I also tend to think integrity is a tad over-rated as one can be "true" to terrible beliefs. The same goes for "courage," as soldiers have been known to bravely fight for the wrong side in a war.



This is pretty silly. As noted, she gets some credit for opposing her traditional coalition. The same could be said for vaccinated liberals who loudly oppose vaccine mandates on the grounds they violate bodily autonomy. In terms of integrity, Cheney consistently remains true to some of her values -- like bombing the absolute **** out of countries. Practically unwavering. But opposing coups is a minimum expectation. "That's what you're supposed to do you dumb, muthafucka!" It's not the floor; it's the basement. We've had politicians who wuved slavery, but still supported peaceful transitions of power.

Like many others in the Greed Over People Party, even Kevin McCarthy initially came out against the coup. There are Republicans terrified of secret audio recordings that could be leaked documenting flashes of knee-jerk basic decency/Trump opposition. Courage is often deemed the most important virtue because it makes all of the others possible. If Cheney bravely loses re-election, she'll just have to make ends meet as a lobbyist for the arms industry, or a talking head on CNN.
Click to expand...

You're entitled to your view. I just don't happen to agree with it.
 
So, I don't see on my television listings that Monday's hearings (both daytime and prime time) are on any of the so-called traditional major networks. Does this mean that most people won't bother to find them on CNN, MSNBC, C-Span or streaming services? Are these hearings just going to be ignored and forgotten by the vast majority? Do most people care more about their ******* bread and circuses than about their ******* country?

The answer to all three questions is "yes."
 
shemp said:
So, I don't see on my television listings that Monday's hearings (both daytime and prime time) are on any of the so-called traditional major networks. Does this mean that most people won't bother to find them on CNN, MSNBC, C-Span or streaming services? Are these hearings just going to be ignored and forgotten by the vast majority? Do most people care more about their ******* bread and circuses than about their ******* country?

The answer to all three questions is "yes."
Click to expand...

Here ya go:

https://deadline.com/2022/06/how-to-watch-january-6-hearings-online-tv-schedule-1235040755/
 
Cain said:
I don't know what this means, but I generally try not to wed integrity to any particular political ideology. I also tend to think integrity is a tad over-rated as one can be "true" to terrible beliefs. The same goes for "courage," as soldiers have been known to bravely fight for the wrong side in a war.
Click to expand...

True, but that is just a generality isn't it.

StacyHS is specifying what Liz Cheney has had the integrity to do...

But she's proven herself to have integrity and courage to be willing to stand up and be a voice of sanity in a party that has gone off the rails into cuckoo land.
Click to expand...

And so have I...

It means two members of the Repugnican Party who have the integrity to not be invested in The Fat Orange Turd's "Big Lie", not parrot the Repugnican talking points that the Jan 6 insurrection was "just a tourist visit" and "legitimate political discourse", not let the truth about who was behind the Jan 6 insurrection be covered up, not let those who broke the law escape punishment!
Click to expand...

Make no mistake, I dislike her politics in general; her war hawkishness, her defense of the use of torture on suspects at Gitmo, and her crusade against lawyers who represented those suspects. It seems that the due process granted under the constitution is not all that important to her. But however much I dislike Liz Cheney and her politics, I will not let that detract from the fact that she has been brave enough to go against her party's line, even at the expense of her own political aspirations and career.
 
Last edited:
Kevin McCarthy made the decision not to allow Republicans to serve on the committee after Speaker Nancy Pelosi rejected two of the five Repubicans selected, Reps. Jim Jordan and Jim Banks. Pelosi rejected them on solid grounds. Jordan could possibly have been subpoenaed to testify. Both were trump allies who were supporters of decertifying the election results. A "senior Republican" said at the time that Pelosi's move was a "gift" to Republicans because they never wanted to take part in the hearing and, if they were on the committee, would be forced to confront complicated questions over trump's role in January 6. McCarthy made it clear, he wanted members who would protect trump. If he couldn't get that his Plan B was to have NO Republicans on the committee so he could claim it was all a partisan witch hunt.

Republicans Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger agreed to serve and thus became pariahs in their own party. Are they outcasts with an axe to grind? I doubt that's the way history will judge them.

I repeat. I've been reading about events in Ukraine since Russia invaded. This type of propaganda and spin seem very familiar. The pro-Russian Ukraine official insisting to a Western journalist that reports of Russian attacks on his city were lies, while ongoing shelling was visible through, and rattling, this official's office windows.

Birds of a feather... ;)
 
Warp12 said:
Speaking of the mutually-despised Cheney...

Jan. 6 hearings: Rep. Scott Perry calls claim he sought Trump pardon a 'soulless lie'
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/jan-6-hearings-rep-scott-perry-trump-pardon-lie
Click to expand...

Well of course, he "would" say that wouldn't he (He';s a Trump lackey so I'll take his denial as a confession)

I think you don't really understand how these public hearing are going to work. Not only will they be having live testimony, they will also be having recorded video of testimony already taken. Liz Cheney said "As you will see, Rep. Perry contacted the White House in the weeks after January 6th to seek a Presidential Pardon"...

Note the As you will see bit!!

Unfortunately for Scott Perry, it is highly likely that multiple White House staff have testified to this under oath, or Cheney would not have made such a claim. I expect that the committee will not say anything that they cannot back up with documents and/or text messages. Furthermore, Cheney even alluded to the fact they have "encrypted communications" that they will reveal in the coming days, so they may even have documentary evidence that Scott Perry doesn't realize they have, of him asking for a presidential pardon.
 
Last edited:
Cain said:
Again, NOT residing in Cukoo Land is the minimum. There's no special praise for being sane. It's like praising able-bodied adults for not using the training potty. "You're a big girl now!"



Joe Manchin has consistently voted to uphold the filibuster despite enormous pressure from people in his party. He opposed Democrats exercising the "nuclear option" in order to bring on Obama's federal judges, and he opposed Republicans doing the same for Trump's Supreme Court nominations. While Manchin is extremely transactional (to be expected from a West Virginia Democrat), with respect to the filibuster, he's proven himself a principled "institutionalist" who cannot be bought. Integrity? Courage? Respect?
Click to expand...

I'll again have to respectfully disagree. Machin's voting contrary to his fellow Dems in several things is designed to keep him electable by his constituents. Cheney and Kinzinger are hearing their political death knells. Kinzinger has already said he will not be running again:

"My disappointment in the leaders that don't lead is huge," he said in his video message. And he was critical of the partisan bent that both major political parties have taken, noting they survive by appealing to the "most motivated and most extreme elements" in them. "Because in this day, to prevail or survive you must belong to a tribe."
Click to expand...

Cheney is trailing significantly against her GOP primary challenger (Harriet Hageman) who is backed by Trump by 28-56 percent.
 
Warp12 said:
Yes. What people believe is more important than what is actually true. I don't think that is even debatable. This is very clear when it comes to claims of election fraud, obviously.
Click to expand...

This is another step in the project of destroying truth so some can gain more power.
 
Warp12 said:
Yes. What people believe is more important than what is actually true. I don't think that is even debatable. This is very clear when it comes to claims of election fraud, obviously.
Click to expand...

Stupidity is more important than intelligence. This is very clear when you see stupid people tearing down what intelligent people have built, obviously. /s
 
Last edited:
Warp12 said:
The truth isn't what got people to storm the Capitol. And it isn't what might get tens of millions to vote for Trump in 2024.

Keep your truth. Political success hinges more upon belief. That IS truth to believers.
Click to expand...
Yep, and now more than 800 of those alternative truthers have been charged with crimes. How does that fit your narrative?

As for 2024, so far Rump is grifting off his claim he'll run. We'll see if he actually does. And then I remind you, he lost in 2020. Maybe he's having some success getting his enemies 'primary-ed', and maybe his diehard cult GOP faction would vote for him. But his support on a national scale has decreased considerably.
 
Warp12 said:
Well, that is one way to be noncommittal about the partisanship issue, I guess.

Quite frankly I am bored of the debate as well. The group can't even agree on why I am wrong, they just know I am...except for those who say it is partisan, but must qualify that it is the fault of republicans. It isn't even as though I have accused the committee of any wrongdoing.
Click to expand...

His first post in 12 years contains more intelligence and common sense that everything you've ever posted combined.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Yep, and now more than 800 of those alternative truthers have been charged with crimes. How does that fit your narrative?

As for 2024, so far Rump is grifting off his claim he'll run. We'll see if he actually does. And then I remind you, he lost in 2020. Maybe he's having some success getting his enemies 'primary-ed', and maybe his diehard cult GOP faction would vote for him. But his support on a national scale has decreased considerably.
Click to expand...
Incredibly, these are current Ladbrokes odds for 2024 president

Donald Trump 5/2
Joe Biden 9/2
Ron DeSantis 6/1
Kamala Harris 12/1
Mike Pence 14/1
Nikki Haley 20/1
Pete Buttigieg 25/1

There is a sickness in the USA and I sympathise with those still sane. Even Mike Pence looks a good man of the republicans if only for doing his simple duty on that day.
 
Warp12 said:
Well, good on you for also admitting that it is a highly partisan committee.

I guess we will see if there is a problem, won't we?
Click to expand...

picture.php
 
Cain said:
The problem with braying, "Partisan" over and over again is that you're not saying anything meaningful. Suppose there's a bill entirely supported by one party, and uniformly opposed by the other. Well, that's a partisan breakdown, but it tells us nothing about why the legislation is good or bad.



I would guess this point has been made already, but I've ignored this discussion. The only reason I'm responding now is because someone asked not to.
Click to expand...
When the substance of a statement/position can't be attacked, impugn the motive of those who make/hold it.

It's just a mashup of poisoning the well and ad hominem.

ETA: and throw in some kettle defence/inconsistent-even-contradictory statements for good measure.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom