Ed The Hurricane [or Tropical Storm] Harvey Thread

[Marcus]

And, define flooded? Transportation ceased, (City Flooded!) or standing water in your house ( Person flooded)?

So, what percentage of the homes in Houston's county were flooded?

They are estimating 30-40,000 homes flooded, but Houston itself (not the general area) has over 800,000 households, so the percentage is lower than you might think from watching the coverage, they of course focus on the worst areas.

 

[alfaniner]

I'm a bit surprised that I haven't seen what I thought would be an inevitable headline using perhaps the most famous quote with the word "Houston" in it.
Although I did see one that said "HARVEY WALLBANGING".

BREAKING: Now there's been two explosions at ARKEMA chemical plant, outside Houston. An explosion was expected and deemed ['inevitable'] yesterday.

I don't understand why the default status for these places is that if there is a breakdown, it's likely to blow up. (Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Damascus).

 

[Octavo]

I don't understand why the default status for these places is that if there is a breakdown, it's likely to blow up. (Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Damascus).

It's a chemical plant, not a nuclear facility for starters and just no. A 500 year flood isn't a "breakdown". A 9.6 earthquake and subsequent tsunami is not a breakdown and the deliberate and unsafe experiments performed at Chernobyl weren't breakdowns either. Thing worked exactly as safely as they were designed to in all those cases. (Damascus is a whole other story)

 

[newyorkguy]

A lot of people simply moved in with friends or family on higher ground...

I thought the nearest higher ground was in Killeen.

Now the hard part begins, cleanup and rebuilding. Does anyone know how the downtown section fared?

 

[Marcus]

I'm a bit surprised that I haven't seen what I thought would be an inevitable headline using perhaps the most famous quote with the word "Houston" in it.
Although I did see one that said "HARVEY WALLBANGING".



I don't understand why the default status for these places is that if there is a breakdown, it's likely to blow up. (Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Damascus).

The backup generator flooded. They didn't design for 50 inches of rain, although I suppose they will now.

 

[Macgyver1968]

The effect of the hurricane is already starting to effect others in the region. My mom wrecked her car, and it was totaled. I've been spending all day trying to find her a rental car to drive until she can purchase a new one. Apparently every single rental car in the city of Dallas has been sent to Houston.

 

[Marcus]

I thought the nearest higher ground was in Killeen.

Now the hard part begins, cleanup and rebuilding. Does anyone know how the downtown section fared?

Some damage, but it doesn't look like anything that can't be repaired. Floods downtown are not unusual, although not to this extent of course, but they never seem to seriously hurt the big buildings.http://houston.culturemap.com/news/...gns-of-life-after-hurricane-harvey-runs-away/

A few years ago I was selling at an art show downtown when, for the first time in it's history, the show closed early on Sunday and they told us to get out quick, huge storm coming. 13 inches of rain that afternoon, which seemed like a lot at the time, the streets were running like rivers, you could have gone water skiing.

 

[Marcus]

The effect of the hurricane is already starting to effect others in the region. My mom wrecked her car, and it was totaled. I've been spending all day trying to find her a rental car to drive until she can purchase a new one. Apparently every single rental car in the city of Dallas has been sent to Houston.

I doubt you can find one in Austin either, even buying one is going to be a problem. I think they said a million cars destroyed.

 

[newyorkguy]

Downtown Houston, the central office district, appears to have been spared the catastrophic damage other parts of the city suffered. The Times reported that by yesterday:

The downtown streets are dry now, but the gleaming office towers are mostly empty and the wide sidewalks oddly quiet. Some streetlights flash red. Along neighborhood streets, long strips of businesses sit shuttered, darkened and with stools atop tables and handwritten signs promising to reopen soon. News link

A downtown group says most flooding of office buildings was in "first level/basement spaces...Water-damaged buildings are located primarily in the northern and western areas of downtown, including the Warehouse, Historic and Theater Districts." I don't think any of the office buildings are open for normal business, not yet, but are normal operation is expected to resume on Tuesday, after the end of the Labor Day weekend. One highlight is, the Houston Astros baseball team is expected to resume regular play at Minute Maid Park on Saturday with a doubleheader versus the New York Mets. Games scheduled against the Texas Rangers baseball team this past week were moved from Houston to the Ranger's stadium in the Dallas area.

Today the high temperature in Houston is expected to be in the low 90s with relatively low humidity levels and NO RAIN.

.

 

[LTC8K6]

Downtown Houston, the central office district, appears to have been spared the catastrophic damage other parts of the city suffered. The Times reported that by yesterday:


A downtown group says most flooding of office buildings was in "first level/basement spaces...Water-damaged buildings are located primarily in the northern and western areas of downtown, including the Warehouse, Historic and Theater Districts." I don't think any of the office buildings are open for normal business, not yet, but are normal operation is expected to resume on Tuesday, after the end of the Labor Day weekend. One highlight is, the Houston Astros baseball team is expected to resume regular play at Minute Maid Park on Saturday with a doubleheader versus the New York Mets. Games scheduled against the Texas Rangers baseball team this past week were moved from Houston to the Ranger's stadium in the Dallas area.

Today the high temperature in Houston is expected to be in the low 90s with relatively low humidity levels and NO RAIN.

.

Pic is from Tuesday, though.

 

[Polaris]

The effect of the hurricane is already starting to effect others in the region. My mom wrecked her car, and it was totaled. I've been spending all day trying to find her a rental car to drive until she can purchase a new one. Apparently every single rental car in the city of Dallas has been sent to Houston.

I'm already seeing gas lines up the street from my house (Carrollton, about midway between Dallas and Fort Worth) a few dozen vehicles long.

Self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[portlandatheist]

It looks like the nuclear power plant was unaffected:
As Harvey Raged, Workers Stayed at Nuclear Plant's Controls

Throughout the storm, the concrete-domed twin reactors have continued operating at full capacity, providing electricity for Texans who can still get service amid a historic flood.

That's good news.
Also, it seemed like people even in the worst hit areas were able to call for help. Was there any cell phone tower outages or did they mostly work, even in the hard hit areas?

 

[Meadmaker]

I'm a bit surprised that I haven't seen what I thought would be an inevitable headline using perhaps the most famous quote with the word "Houston" in it.
Although I did see one that said "HARVEY WALLBANGING".



I don't understand why the default status for these places is that if there is a breakdown, it's likely to blow up. (Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Damascus).

In this case there were volatile chemicals that were likely to explode unless refrigerated, and the power to the refrigerators went out.

Or so I read yesterday.

 

[Marcus]

In this case there were volatile chemicals that were likely to explode unless refrigerated, and the power to the refrigerators went out.

Or so I read yesterday.

The power went out, then the backup generators went out because they were flooded.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

There is a move towards "safe" failing in various industries. However it is expensive and not always possible. A nuclear power plant built today SHOULD have the set up where if the power goes out it turns off the reaction and cools off. However I don't think most plants in the US are built to that standard. Plus it is usually an extra expense to run with that sort of fail safe feature.

I don't know much about the chemicals in question, but there will always be some plants that are dangerous in a failure.

There are still a lot of questions about what has gone wrong in this situation, but also a lot of finger pointing started.

 

[LTC8K6]

https://twitter.com/michaelkeyes/status/903222264858124289

 

[Vixen]

I'm hearing about 18 to 20 deaths at the moment. The specific cases I've seen reported (nine) are all drownings in vehicles while trying to evacuate. Has anyone who stayed put been killed because of that decision?

Whilst it is a terrible tragedy people died, IMV a narrow focus on the 'death toll' is not relevant here, given the wipe scope of the disaster. People with homes ruined, young children and animals terrified for long periods of time, the sheer stress of water flooding one's home. This is a case of extreme widespread suffering, even if the attitude of some is 'nobody died' or 'only 33 died'.

 

[Vixen]

I'm a bit surprised that I haven't seen what I thought would be an inevitable headline using perhaps the most famous quote with the word "Houston" in it.
Although I did see one that said "HARVEY WALLBANGING".



I don't understand why the default status for these places is that if there is a breakdown, it's likely to blow up. (Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Fukushima, Damascus).

The type of stock this unit processed is not available on public records. ARKEMA put out a statement this morning informing us they are 'organic peroxides' (used in making bleaches, acetone and that type of stuff). Highly volatile and inflammable.

It's bonkers their saying 'Oh it's not an explosion', it's a chemical reaction' (er, what do they think explosions are?).

 

[Marcus]

There is a move towards "safe" failing in various industries. However it is expensive and not always possible. A nuclear power plant built today SHOULD have the set up where if the power goes out it turns off the reaction and cools off. However I don't think most plants in the US are built to that standard. Plus it is usually an extra expense to run with that sort of fail safe feature.

I don't know much about the chemicals in question, but there will always be some plants that are dangerous in a failure.

There are still a lot of questions about what has gone wrong in this situation, but also a lot of finger pointing started.

The chemicals in this case are organic peroxides. They are not toxic, but if they are allowed to warm up they will produce a vigorous exothermic reaction, not really an explosion, more like a fast burning. Not nearly as dangerous as a nuclear plant.

 

[Vixen]

The chemicals in this case are organic peroxides. They are not toxic, but if they are allowed to warm up they will produce a vigorous exothermic reaction, not really an explosion, more like a fast burning. Not nearly as dangerous as a nuclear plant.

Depends what you mean by toxic. Just because there is no radiation involved, it can still be hazardous to health. It could be equally carcinogenic with ill health showing up several years down the line.

Organic peroxides don't need to be 'warmed up'. They need to be kept at refrigerated temperatures. Room temperature is enough to set them off as it causes a rapid oxidization process = flames/explosions.

First aid

Organic peroxides have highly oxidative properties, and are injurious to the skin and mucous membranes. It is therefore necessary to protect eyes, mouth, and hands to avoid direct contact with organic peroxide.


(1) When organic peroxide contacts the skin
Repeated cleansing with soap will be sufficient. However, if itching and pain are felt after cleansing, apply an adrenocortical hormone ointment to the skin. For detailed treatment, consult a doctor.



(2) When organic peroxide enters the eyes
Eyes must be washed with flowing water for 20 to 30 minutes without any delay, and medical treatment from a physician is necessary. (For reference, when hydroperoxides and methylethylketone peroxides enter the eyes, 5% ascorbic acid sodium solution and 3% sodium bicarbonate solution are useful for cleansing)



(3) When organic peroxide is swallowed
The oral toxicity of organic peroxides is not exactly known. When someone has swallowed organic peroxide, it is advisable to induce vomiting after giving a large amount of milk (in the case of hydroperoxides and methylethylketone peroxides, 5% ascorbic acid sodium solution is useful) and immediately seek treatment from a physician. If the patient is unconscious, convulsed, or has a convulsive fit, vomiting should not be induced. Lay the patient on the side, maintain the mouth open for breathing and the head lower than the body, and seek immediate admission to a medical facility.

http://www.nof.co.jp/english/business/chemical/product01_06.html