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The Homeopathic Veterinarian

shemp

a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
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I was looking for a little advice for an allergic cat and found this:

The homeopathic veterinarian

Homeopathy and its use in pets

Homeopathy has been used successfully to treat disease in animals in the same way as it is used for treating people. Merely dispensing the homeopathic remedies without consultation about your pet is generally not enough to get a good result in most cases. One member of our veterinary team specialises in homeopathy and is able to provide this service at a distance for your dog, cat and rabbit. For the system to work successfully, it is necessary to obtain an extremely detailed history of not only your pet's symptoms but interactions with the environment, people and other pets as well as an idea of the mental state of your pet. If you wish to have a homeopathic consultation send us the details of your pet by using our well established Online Vet for Homeopathy consultation service, making sure that you clearly indicate that you would like the animal treated homeopathically. We find it is often necessary that in addition to this very detailed information in the dog, cat and rabbit consultation questionnaires, other extra information is required as well. Descriptions and uses of a few of the more common homeopathic remedies available from us for dogs, cats and rabbits, are listed below and are available from us by mail order.

Of course, there's plenty of homeopathic remedies available for purchase.

I wonder how many people try this crap, then end up having to take the pet to a responsible veterinarian instead.
 
"Homeopathy has been sucesfully used to treat disease in animals in the same way as it has been for treating people."
Doesn't that say it all?
 
There's an Elephant Sanctuary in Tennessee that seems like a good place for elephants to end up. I was looking through their site looking at all the happy elephant pictures, when I saw this in their FAQ.

How do you medicate them?
We use homeopathy to care for and treat our elephants; orally and by injection.

http://www.elephants.com/questions.htm

I have a feeling they don't even know what homeopathy is and are just saying that because it sounds good to them.
 
I imagine just as many people accept this as do for themselves.

This reminds me of when I went to my local vet and noticed a sign announcing proudly that they now had a trained animal chiropractor on staff.... seemed ridiculous to me, but I'm sure they are doing well with it.

-Elektrix
 
Elektrix said:
I imagine just as many people accept this as do for themselves.

This reminds me of when I went to my local vet and noticed a sign announcing proudly that they now had a trained animal chiropractor on staff.... seemed ridiculous to me, but I'm sure they are doing well with it.

-Elektrix
I would have asked if they did animal acupucture, just to needle them.
 
I did once chat,very briefly,with a homeopathic veterinarian on a dog forum.
I posted some negative reviews of homeopathy and this person put on at least these two points;
"Western medicine has always been skeptical of-(rest is history"
"When homeopathy was created,medicine was-(self-contradictory,rest is history".
 
From the link.....

Homeopathy for dogs and cats is an adaptation of the classical system of medical treatment that looks at a cure for the individual as a whole and the homeopathic veterinarian does not just treat the illness itself.

The phrase "Holistic health", though not specifically used here, should cause alarm bells to ring.

The founder of modern homeopathic medicine was an 18th century doctor called Samuel Hahnemann at a time when conventional medicine was at best crude and often fatal.

This is why homeopathic treatments caught on. Bleeding and purging, which were part of the conventional medical treatment of the time killed people, but homeopathy was at least harmless.
This is no longer the case.

The general principles of homeopathy are two fold.
Homeopathy maintains that like can be cured by like.

No reason or explanation has ever been given for why this should be so.

Homeopathic remedies are effective in very dilute doses.

And the more dilute the more potent!
Counterintuitive? Sure.....but so is relativity and quantum physics :rolleyes:

Consider a common illness displaying symptoms that are easily recognised - a viral throat infection. Apart from a painful sore throat, the patient would be very hot and flushed, the pupils of the eyes can be dilated, there is frequently a headache and in severe cases the patient may be delirious and hallucinating (this is a very common picture in children). Orthodox treatment would only alleviate the symptoms by using paracetamol or some similar painkiller.

Because there is no cure for a viral illness (or rarely).
Either the body's immune system eliminates the virus or the patient dies (or lives with the virus)

homeopathic treatment would be with Belladonna. Why? Because if Belladonna is taken in too high a dose by a healthy individual it causes a hot, red face, dilated pupils, a headache and possibly even hallucinations. In other words, if given to an otherwise healthy individual, it causes the very symptoms that the patient with the throat infection is suffering from.

Makes a lot of sense doesn't it?
If you have a headache, give the patient something that causes a headache. Makes perfect sense!

The normally poisonous substance is rendered safe by administering it in a minute dose prepared in the homeopathic manner.

It is rendered safe by diluting it completely out of the solution

Whilst orthodox medicine is often extremely efficient at treating the illness for which it has been prescribed, it can sometimes also produce unwanted side-effects. (e.g. Antihistamines may alleviate the symptoms of hay fever but may cause quite extreme drowsiness - in some cases making daily activities such as driving a car really quite dangerous).

It is often the case that a treatment that has no side effects is having no beneficial effects

One advantage of homeopathic treatment is that no side-effects occur.

See above. There is nothing in the homeopathic treatment to cause any effects.

There is no clash between the two systems of orthodox and homeopathic treatments

No, you can swallow your antibiotic with plain water and expect absolutely no interference with the antibiotic. :cool:

and most practitioners prefer to think of homeopathic medicine as complementary, not alternative, to orthodox medicine.

Most prefer to think of it as non-medicine.

Thanks to the manner of their action and their high dilution, homeopathic medicines are extremely safe;

...and useless.

in fact it is impossible to take an overdose.

Not so. Drinking 9 liters of water a day can be fatal.

To do this it would be necessary to swallow about 12 million tablets at one go.

Try swallowing only1 million!!!

In addition to being safe, free of side-effect, easy to give (most homeopathic remedies are easy to administer, usually in the form of powders, granules, tablets or pills with a neutral or sweetish taste which makes them easy to take), homeopathic medicines are cheap. An average course of treatment costs very little in comparison with some modern drug regimes.

But the cost-benefit is zero

BJ
 
ambiguity

I opened this thread because of the subject heading. I was really hoping somebody had worked out a way to dilute a homeopathic vetrinarian 1 part in 100 to the 200th power.
:p
 
Re: ambiguity

DrMatt: I opened this thread because of the subject heading. I was really hoping somebody had worked out a way to dilute a homeopathic vetrinarian 1 part in 100 to the 200th power.
 
Why do cattle get well?

There is a successful, practising homeopathic veterinarian in the UK.

I am curious to know why, if homeopathic remedies cannot cure illness in cattle, why farmers would continue to employ a homeopathic vet? Surely the cattle would die without proper medicine?

Cattle cannot know what they are being treated with. So treated cattle that recover from an illness are not subject to a "placebo effect"?

Is it possible that something the homeopath does effects a cure but that something has nothing to do with their explanation of how it works?
 
Re: Why do cattle get well?

cyberHermit said:
There is a successful, practising homeopathic veterinarian in the UK.

I am curious to know why, if homeopathic remedies cannot cure illness in cattle, why farmers would continue to employ a homeopathic vet? Surely the cattle would die without proper medicine?

Cattle cannot know what they are being treated with. So treated cattle that recover from an illness are not subject to a "placebo effect"?

Is it possible that something the homeopath does effects a cure but that something has nothing to do with their explanation of how it works?
I think you had better quantify the situation better.

How many farmers continue to employ homeo-vets? What is their success rate versus "normal" vets?

What makes you think cattle WILL die without "proper" medicine? That's not always true, surely? Some animal diseases get better by simply keeping the animal fed, dry, warm and clean, as recommended by any good vet, but homeo-vets like to claim these recoveries as "successes for homeopathy".

The only thing a homeo-vet actually does is to provide the animal a swallow of water or little sugar pills. If providing a swallow of water or little sugar pills measureably helps the animals get better in some way then that's all they can claim credit for. Sound reasonable?

I think Rolfe will be able to say much more with assurance on this subject.
 
Re: Why do cattle get well?

cyberHermit said:


Is it possible that something the homeopath does effects a cure but that something has nothing to do with their explanation of how it works?

No, it is not possible. But it is very likely that you are being fooled into thinking there is anything to homeopathy - there is not.
 
Does anyone know if homeopathic vets are a urban or rural phenomina ? I am curiuos if they are used by families or farmers ?
 
A couple of things to note about animals:

- IMO as an owner they tend to get better, or die musch more rapidly than humans
- For many diseases recovery is subjective (well his coat looks nice and shiny), the animal can't describe its current symptoms. If both vet and owner believe in the homoeoeoeoeoeoeopath(et)ic "cure" then the animal's condition may appear to improve

Plus all that other stuff about keeping the anima nice and warm and looking after it.

Also SOME farmers like SOME non-farmers are stupid and/or gullible.
 
OK, gotta bite, I suppose.

This lunacy is quite widespread. Look at the British Association of Homoeopathic Veterinary Surgeons and the Alternative Veterinary Medicine Centre in the UK, and New Millennium Medicine in the US (these latter two go the whole nine yards in woo-woo, it's not just homoeopathy).

In the same way as there are medical doctors who have fallen for the homoeopathy superstition, and practise it within the profession (because the social clout of the homoeopaths has kept them safe from scrutiny since before evidence-based medicine really got underway), there are vets suffering from the same syndrome. It's hard to oppose within the profession, again because these people have social clout and play the "it's not nice to criticise a colleague" card, and of course because the vets simply point to the fact that the human medics haven't been tossed out on their ears yet.

However, they do have their critics - this one is quite funny, the British Veterinary Voodoo Society.

Woo-wooism covers both pet practice and farm practice - pets because the same middle-class anti-establishment gullible new-agers who patronise the human homoeopaths also have pets, and farm practice because there are farmers who cater to these people by practising "organic" farming where proper medicine to treat sick animals is practically banned, and they're positively encouraged to use homoeopathy which as we all know has no residues. :nope:

However, there is some resistance here - look at the controlled results in calf diarrhoea and canine atopic dermatitis.

If you've time on your hands, look at the correspondence on homoeopathy posted on the voodoo site. It's pretty vicious in places.

How does it "work" in animals? It's simple. It's the humans (vets and owners) who decide if the animal is better. Putting another subjective filter in the chain like that simply makes it easier to declare you've got the result you wanted. (The animal can't chip in with, "that's rubbish, I still feel like hell.") Of course that doesn't fool all of the people all of the time, but it works often enough to keep some people in a tidy little earner. One of the aspects I keep coming up against is the owner who is being assured by the homoeopath that it's all going entirely to plan, it's as good as we could hope for - and the owner finally realises that this is all smoke and mirrors, and jumps ship to a competent vet. However, I suspect that when the animal simply isn't re-presented the homoeopath just chalks it up as another "cure" to boast about.

Rolfe.
 
Appropiate place to add this.

In this months magazine of the Cats Protection (a long establish charity that promotes good cat ownership and neutering of all pet cats) there is an article about homeopathic usage for cats by a "vet" and it's the first part of a series! :mad:


The article has infuriated me and I've written a letter protesting their promotion of this quackery. I've supported the CP for many years and even actively fostered homeless cats for them for a couple of years but in my letter I have made clear that I will no longer support a charity that recklessly wastes money and is willing to offer such terrible advice to cat owners.
 
Darat said:
I've written a letter protesting their promotion of this quackery. I've supported the CP for many years and even actively fostered homeless cats for them for a couple of years but in my letter I have made clear that I will no longer support a charity that recklessly wastes money and is willing to offer such terrible advice to cat owners.
Good for you! I wish more people would do that. It's simply animal abuse, using content-free "medicine" on a sick pet.

For a happier anecdote, the body which governs cat shows in this country, the GCCF, states clearly in its show rules that homoeopathic "vaccination" certificates are not acceptable, and any cat that wants to be admitted to the show arena had jolly well better come armed with proof that it's been vaccinated with a proper licensed vaccine.

Rolfe.
 
Many thanks for all posts. I am grateful for the effort you all put in to help me understand this issue, particularly Rolfe. Yes, I did follow the links you added and found the detail I was looking for.

After distilling all the information I find that cattle can die following homeopathic treatment. Some cattle do survive, but probably due to better environmental conditions.

Farmers who continue to use homeopathic vets possibly do so because they have not yet lost stock in sufficient numbers to warrant changing the method of treatment. There also seems to be some suspicion of the authorities (MAFF) and some farmers claim they want "to keep their options open" and not be told what treatments to administer in every case. The authorities handling of the last foot and mouth outbreak proved they weren't as competant as they claimed to be. Distrust is inevitable.

A vet must be qualified in vetinary medicine and in homeopathy before they can can practice homeopathy on animals (at least I find that is true for the UK). That means for the vet -- if the voodoo doesn't work there is always medicine to fall back on. If a vet is gaining work because of his homeopathic services and the farmer feels he is making his own decisions then:-

1. A homeopathic vet has no incentive to report the truth about which treatment was successful. (homeopathy versus medicine)

2. Some farmers will continue to choose homeopathic vets because the authorities have either failed to communicate with those farmers sufficiently or farmers have lost their confidence in the system.

?
 
cyberHermit said:
That means for the vet -- if the voodoo doesn't work there is always medicine to fall back on. If a vet is gaining work because of his homeopathic services and the farmer feels he is making his own decisions then:-

1. A homeopathic vet has no incentive to report the truth about which treatment was successful. (homeopathy versus medicine)

2. Some farmers will continue to choose homeopathic vets....
This is actually a very penetrating insight.

Rolfe.
 
Jeff Corey said:

I would have asked if they did animal acupucture, just to needle them.

The other day, I was leafing through the program for the Indiana Vet Med Assoc meeting this weekend, and something jumped out at me. For most of the speakers, they had a picture and a short bio/specialty description. So it was always "Dr. Bob Smith, DVM: Dr. Smith has worked in the field of XX and YY for 18 years, and specializes in ZZ. He has an assistant professor at Purdue University. Dr. Smith graduated with a DVM from Michigan St in 1978, did a residency at Colorado St, and got his PhD at Iowa St in 1985."

But one of the descriptions that caught my eye was for Dr. Nancy Jones, DVM, PhD. It was the only one on the page that specified PhD with the name, despite the fact that they all had their PhD's. Of course, I was not surprised to find that "Almost 50% of Dr. Jones' business is in horse acupuncture."

What is it about woo-woos that they think it is so important to advertise their credentials? "Dr." Kent Hovind. "Dr." Duane Gish. You know, Carl Sagan had a PhD, but he didn't always insist on "Dr." Carl Sagan. Same for "Dr." Steven J. Gould.

I guess if you haven't got anything good to say, if nothing else drop some credentials to make it sound good.
 

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