The Holocaust Memorial in Berlin.

[Cleopatra]

A Greek friend told me ( I wasn't able to confirm it yet) that the director of the Jewish Museum in Berlin said that this Memorial is not for the Jews but for the Germans in order to remind them the genocide.This is the mentality that makes me furious.

This will stay there for ever because even after a century nobody will dare to remove it and they will have to live with the uglyness.

I am very sorry about that.

The French Memorial though is something evry different ,something we wish we had here.It's a living Museum and Cultural Centre.

http://www.memorialdelashoah.org/

 

[epepke]

Are you saying that the still present anti semitism throughout Europe stops Jews from living a normal live here? That may be so, I'd guess that the opinions will differ here but I can't comment.

I'm not she, but I'd assert that yes there is strong anti-semitism, and yes it does prevent a Jew from living a normal life, but that's not the end of it. Jews formed an integral and terribly important part of European culture for many hundreds of years, and that's basically all been wiped out. You just can't go back to the town in Poland where your ancestors lived for 500 years, because there is no such thing any more. It's nearly impossible to do genealogical research about Jewish ancestry unless you go to the Mormons (who get a lot of stuff wrong), because most of the places where you would expect to be able to do that sort of thing are just gone.

So it's not simply that a lot of people were killed (not all of them Jews), which is bad enough, but it's almost as if they never existed.

 

[ZeeGerman]

I'm not she, but I'd assert that yes there is strong anti-semitism, and yes it does prevent a Jew from living a normal life, but that's not the end of it. Jews formed an integral and terribly important part of European culture for many hundreds of years, and that's basically all been wiped out. You just can't go back to the town in Poland where your ancestors lived for 500 years, because there is no such thing any more. It's nearly impossible to do genealogical research about Jewish ancestry unless you go to the Mormons (who get a lot of stuff wrong), because most of the places where you would expect to be able to do that sort of thing are just gone.

So it's not simply that a lot of people were killed (not all of them Jews), which is bad enough, but it's almost as if they never existed.

As I said, I can't comment on how modern european anti semitism affects the lives of european jews because I'm neither a Jew nor do I know any personally. But I believe that your (and Cleopatras) frustration and anger is justified.
The cultural damage caused by the historic anti semitism that climaxed in the holocaust is indeed as unfathomable as the loss of human life. Had the whole mess just not happened, Europe would still be the shining centre of science, art and engineering. So, in that way the holocaust damaged all of us. A damage that can't be undone, neither by memorials nor by political good will speeches.

Zee

 

[Flo]

As I said, I can't comment on how modern european anti semitism affects the lives of european jews because I'm neither a Jew nor do I know any personally. But I believe that your (and Cleopatras) frustration and anger is justified.
The cultural damage caused by the historic anti semitism that climaxed in the holocaust is indeed as unfathomable as the loss of human life. Had the whole mess just not happened, Europe would still be the shining centre of science, art and engineering. So, in that way the holocaust damaged all of us. A damage that can't be undone, neither by memorials nor by political good will speeches.

Zee

Which is why memorials (good ones*) are somehow necessary in order to teach the coming generations what can happen should those who devised those horrors come back to power.

* as Cleo expressed, a good memorial should not only be in rememberance of the past, but should strive to preserve and spread what could be salvaged. It should also avoid conveying eternal guilt and take a lot less into account the pride and artistic "inspiration" of its designer.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Now that I have seen pictures of it, I agree it is ugly. But then, so is the thing it commemorates. Could the memorial of the Holocaust be beautiful? I suppose so.

I just visited the German war cemetery in Maleme (Crete). That place is very beautiful, but still manages to convey its sinister message.

Whatever its looks, I think it needs to exist. We may not learn from our past, but if we don't remember it, we surely will not.

Hans

 

[Cleon]

Now that I have seen pictures of it, I agree it is ugly. But then, so is the thing it commemorates. Could the memorial of the Holocaust be beautiful? I suppose so.

If you want an example of a beautiful Holocaust memorial, visit Yad Vashem in Jerusalem sometime. Very moving.

 

[ZeeGerman]

From what I've read about the intentions of the artistic design, it is meant to make the visitors to not only feel awestruck but to feel really uneasy, isolated and lost.
As such it probably has to be ugly in a way. Also, Berlin is not a beautiful city in the sense Munich, Vienna, Rome or Paris are beautiful. It is a restless metropolis with many bad scars from the past: the heavy destruction from WWII, the ugly wound of the cold war manifested in the wall, the pragmatic and loveless rebuilding in the west part, the architectural abominations of the socialistic east and the questionable results to put the parts back together after 1989. Beautiful, Berlin is not (though very exciting) and a memorial that is ugly but makes the desired impact fits the image perfectly.

If the opinions about it were not divided, it wouldn't be a piece of art, would it?

Zee