The Hellbounds Club

[Abdul Alhazred]

But what happens when a tacoist confronts a cheeseburgerist?

Not mutually exclusive.

Two forms, same substance, right? Or is it similar substance?

Uh oh. I feel a holy war coming.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

But I have had the opposite problem once! Someone found out that although I am an atheist, I used to be a born-again christian. He informed me that it is a one-way trip--once I have accepted the lord JC as my personal savior, I am going to heaven and it doesn't matter what I do or say. I had to argue for my right to go to hell by his beliefs!

You were an Arminian heretic. Now you are atheist. Same difference, as far as going to Hell is concerned.

Wait, that's not right! Your accoster is a heretic and you're both going to Hell. Yeah, that's the ticket!

 

[Lord Emsworth]

But I have had the opposite problem once! Someone found out that although I am an atheist, I used to be a born-again christian. He informed me that it is a one-way trip--once I have accepted the lord JC as my personal savior, I am going to heaven and it doesn't matter what I do or say. I had to argue for my right to go to hell by his beliefs!

He got that completely wrong ...

You never truly accepted JC as your personal saviour. You see, once a born again - always a born again. Those who lose their faith were never true born agains in the first place.

 

[Bikewer]

I have been waiting in vain for about 40 years for my Official Notice of Excommunication, but so far no luck.

I guess the Catholics still think of me as "fallen away", or perhaps "non-practicing".

Our local Rationalist organization was offering "De-Baptisms" for a while....

 

[Charlie in Dayton]

Have I ever been "officially condemned"?...hmmmm...

Well, LPD/ICTPOD has kinda pretty well given up on saving any of our souls, especially those of us with the unmitigated temerity to disagree with him (like me, for an extended period of time)...

And I've been on The Bethke Blinding List©™® since its inception...

Do those count?

 

[Mercutio]

He got that completely wrong ...

You never truly accepted JC as your personal saviour. You see, once a born again - always a born again. Those who lose their faith were never true born agains in the first place.

I have heard that take on it...If they go there, I have fun with it. I look them in the eye and tell them that I guarantee that I was every bit as much a born-again back then as they are now...and that if they cannot handle the fear that they might turn out like me, that's their problem. I also volunteer to tell them all about the journey, and tell them (and I can look incredibly earnest) that I can guarantee I will convert them before they convert me.

They leave, then. Every time.

 

[c4ts]

But what happens when a tacoist confronts a cheeseburgerist?

I hate those dirty cheeseburgerists...

Ketchup and ground beef everywhere. Not a pretty sight.

 

[Yahweh]

He got that completely wrong ...

You never truly accepted JC as your personal saviour. You see, once a born again - always a born again. Those who lose their faith were never true born agains in the first place.

It doesnt matter...

There is a One True Religion™, it just turns out Christianity aint it. And all non-believers go to Hell. Oops

 

[Yahweh]

But what happens when a tacoist confronts a cheeseburgerist?

I hate those dirty cheeseburgerists...

Cheeseburgerists are just Tacoists who are confused. Cheeseburgerists and Tacoists eat the same ground beef, Cheeseburgerists just press their meat into a disc.

Its not much more than the difference between Protestants and Catholics.

(I consider Cheeseburgerism a bastardization of Tacoism... but that just me...)

 

[fishbob]

My wife had a co-worker that was a fairly extreme fundy. When her fundy husband was sick, my wife worked extra shifts to cover for her, we did a little baby sitting for her kids, and generally tried to help out.

Her comment to my wife later was something like: You are a nice person. Too bad you haven't been saved. It is such a shame that you are going to burn in hell.

 

[Bottle or the Gun]

Live it, believe it!

So You've Decided To Be Evil

 

[Checkmite]

I don't want to be evil. If I'm evil, I won't be able to hear people like the woman fishbob refers to tell me that "It's a shame you're going to burn in hell". From what I gather, there'll be plenty of kind, caring, generous, virtuous, charitable, moral, and loving people in Hell, and those are the kinds of people I want to suffer eternally with.

Besides, all evil people do all day is laugh loudly and wickedly, discuss lamebrain ad hoc plans painfully mislabeled as "genius", and get thwarted by James Bond.

 

[Kopji]

Humm, only as a believer.

I have a lovingly saved official rejection letter from the organizer of a large interfaith activity, sending registration money back and telling me we were not welcome because we sounded too much like Mormons.

Another time, from a member of my own church... I was politely but firmly told I should fear to appear before God, when I questioned the rationality of a belief that Jesus would someday descend in bodily form over a suburb of Kansas City.

-shrug-

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

He got that completely wrong ...

You never truly accepted JC as your personal saviour. You see, once a born again - always a born again. Those who lose their faith were never true born agains in the first place.

The opposite view is the Arminian heresy, and yours is the Calvinist heresy.

It's all very simple, there are no real Christians. They are all heretics and going to Hell.

By the way, Armenia was the first country to go officially Christian and there is an Armenian Orthodox Church that is neither in the Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox tradition.

What happens when a member of this church goes to a revival meeting and gets born again?

An Armenian Arminian?

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

Humm, only as a believer.

I have a lovingly saved official rejection letter from the organizer of a large interfaith activity, sending registration money back and telling me we were not welcome because we sounded too much like Mormons.

Another time, from a member of my own church... I was politely but firmly told I should fear to appear before God, when I questioned the rationality of a belief that Jesus would someday descend in bodily form over a suburb of Kansas City.

OK Mister or Miz sounds too much like a Mormon. You are by your own admission a member of a church. Which one?

A church that's noticeably Mormonesque in some way? Reserving judgement about how much is too much, of course.

Is the "interfaith" outfit one that includes Roman Catholics and Jews as some of them do? Or one of those across some denominational lines revivalist Protestant things.

I'm genuinely curious, not being rhetorical.

I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that the Kansas City business is someone's personal idiosyncrasy, not the doctrine of a sect.

Which suburb of Kansas City? Did your co-religionist have any particular line of reasoning? If so, I'd be interested to know it for amusement purposes.

Why Kansas City? Why not Kansas City?

Why Rome? Why Jerusalem? Why anywhere?

 

[Kopji]

Abdul Alhazred
Hello,

OK Mister or Miz sounds too much like a Mormon. You are by your own admission a member of a church. Which one?

What am I?... Taoist? Atheist? Naturalist? Unbeliever? Brite? I dunno, I see no need for labels and choose to reject them.

Was raised RLDS, a tiny sect of Mormonism based in Missouri instead of Utah. Not a convert, which would be something else.

Apoligies, sarcasm conveys poorly in letters.


A church that's noticeably Mormonesque in some way? Reserving judgement about how much is too much, of course.

Hummm... Enough judgement to cause many friends and family pain and sorrow at my departure. How much is enough?

Maybe I'm a fanatic in a weird sense, to be true to my own journey?

Is the "interfaith" outfit one that includes Roman Catholics and Jews as some of them do? Or one of those across some denominational lines revivalist Protestant things.

Presented as the former, obviously the latter.

I'm genuinely curious, not being rhetorical.

Sorry for the delay in responding. This is a big site and I sometimes lose my way around.

I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that the Kansas City business is someone's personal idiosyncrasy, not the doctrine of a sect.
No, if you talk to any Mormon long enough, will find this belief somewhere. Independence MO is the 'Centerplace', place of the 'New Jerusalem' where Jesus will reappear in the temple etc etc. 10 million people?

Which suburb of Kansas City? Did your co-religionist have any particular line of reasoning? If so, I'd be interested to know it for amusement purposes.

Why Kansas City? Why not Kansas City?

-shrug- 'Because God said so to Joseph Smith' As true as any faith's answer to anything isn't it?

Why Rome? Why Jerusalem? Why anywhere?

Maybe it is useful to have a focal point. To simply state that all ground is holy ground will hardly draw a crowd.

I think that one of the things Mohamed was credited with doing was changing prayer from facing Jerusalem, to facing Mecca.
Religion does not ever offer anything really new (that would be heresy), so the ancient must must be re-created with fresh metaphors.

Just a thought, I could be wrong. Maybe people just get bored.

 

[Some Friggin Guy]

This has been my experience too...and depending on who is doing the praying for me, I will either be flattered or incensed.

But I have had the opposite problem once! Someone found out that although I am an atheist, I used to be a born-again christian. He informed me that it is a one-way trip--once I have accepted the lord JC as my personal savior, I am going to heaven and it doesn't matter what I do or say. I had to argue for my right to go to hell by his beliefs!

(thinking back, perhaps I should have asked whether I would still go to heaven if I committed a murder after finding jesus...then just look at the guy funny...)

Mercutio, you missed a prime opportunity to REALLY mess with the guy.

See, I would have started relentlessly hitting on him. After all, homosexuality is worse than murder to a lot of fundies.



As for being officially condemned, well, I've been ex-communicated, as I've said before. Since that means the church decided I don't actually have a soul, I guess I get off easy, since I have nothing to be tormented eternally. (This is why, if you're going to mess with the church, you need to do it BIG!

 

[T'ai Chi]

When I started grad school I tried to start a t'ai chi ch'uan club on campus. I put up flyers on my office door with a sign-up sheet. These flyers had a picture of the yin-yang symbol (called t'ai chi) on them, as well as two outlines of a famous t'ai chi ch'uan practicioner in some postures.

A fellow student who, later I found out, is an extremely literal Christian, comes over and asks me what t'ai chi is. OK, that is a reasonable question.

I explain to him that it is a Chinese martial art, exercise, and meditation which can be based on the theory of yin and yang (but one doesn't have to look at it in this light at all), and is typically done slowly, but also done quickly, for example, for self defense purposes. It has benefits of improved balance, precise alignment, weight bearing activity, relaxation, and cons of probably not cardiovascular exercise, not immediate self defense skills, not much sparring, and difficult to find a good instructor (there are more benefits and cons that I am probably leaving out). I wasn't in salesman mode, but rather I presented a very fair view of what it is. Afterall, I didn't need him to sign up as I already had about 5 or so signatures at the time, and you only needed 10 to get your club proposed. I was happy that I had that many signatures; afterall, my office was sandwiched between the statistics dept and the math dept.... not exactly the hang out spot on campus.

Anyway, I then demonstrated a few basic postures and applications of these postures for him.

He then, very suprisingly and without warning, proceeded to tell me how the yin-yang symbol is the root of evil, and Jesus is the only true way! He said something about the armor of God being all the protection one needs.

I asked him what Jesus had to do with anything in this case since we were talking about a martial art, not a religion, told him that I was honestly a bit confused by his remark, and said that if he wanted to, he is welcome to come and watch the club in action and participate, if the club gets enough members to get going that is.

I also mentioned that Jesus' teachings at least, from what I know, don't seem to contradict anything in t'ai chi ch'uan or any martial art that I am aware of. Moreover, heh, didn't God/Jesus create t'ai chi ch'uan in the first place!!? (I didn't ask that though)

For fun, I should have asked him if he'd be interested in putting his armor of God up against some evil t'ai chi ch'uan punches/kicks.

Every month or so I'd get a new very small green Bible slid under my door from you-know-who. Since I actually don't mind the Bible and don't feel insulted by them, I thanked him for the first one (he denied sending it, even though I saw him placing exactly the same type of Bible in the computer lab). I was only insulted by him thinking I threw them away when he gave them to me.

He'd also ask me 'why do you read that stuff?' whenever he'd see me read JREF commentary and CSICOP magazines/articles that I'd bring or print out and read. He didn't notice at all until he saw I had articles on religion. I'd tell him the same thing each time, that I find it interesting, entertaining, and it works my brain, like the statistics and mathematics we were studying in grad school. What he wasn't aware of, or if he was he actively chose to deny it, is that I think the exact same way about articles on religion, and also printed out a lot of these to read.

 

[Maledict]

I'm sad to hear that Josh How's your friend's younger brother doing? I just loathe to see children intimidated...

I've never had anyone condemn me to eternal roastings of hellfire as of yet - Since I've never really been outside of Asia that much.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

I'm assuming, correct me if I'm wrong, that the Kansas City business is someone's personal idiosyncrasy, not the doctrine of a sect.

No, if you talk to any Mormon long enough, will find this belief somewhere. Independence MO is the 'Centerplace', place of the 'New Jerusalem' where Jesus will reappear in the temple etc etc. 10 million people?

I have unthinkingly unleashed a world of hurt. I'm sorry. I never realized. It seems that there is more hideous insanity in the world than I ever realized.

Reorganinized Mormons? Are they more or less insane than the regular kind? At least Jews can rest easy that they don't claim Jerusalem like everyone else.