The Gun Debate

[merphie]

Ironic statement of the year. Ed, "It has been show that criminals do not use these type of guns" was the argument used to justify letting the law LAPSE.

The survey shows that the weapons were only used 2%. They are simply too big.

On both sides, no?

No, I have facts on my side.

No, because I don't think it grandfathered current owners of the banned weapons in.

The law only banned the making of new guns/parts. It didn't affect existing. So law-abiding owners were the reason the ban has failed?

This is just a pro-gun scare tactic. Most of the "recreational" drugs are banned, and by your argument that is just a step to banning all drugs. Yet for almost 70 years, whole other drugs get banned left and right, alcohol is still plenty legal, and so is nicotine. By your argument, banning gay marriage is just a step to banning all marriage. Yet, well, you know the rest.
Not at all surprising, since they are synonymous.

Wrong Again. Not scare tactic. I'm not talking drugs. Even though drugs have been increasing in availabilty over time and becoming cheaper.

It's history that shows that that shows this is just a gun grab which could lead to an all out ban. I only have to look at the authors of the bill and listen to what they say to understand what their agenda is.

 

[Dorian Gray]

The law only banned the making of new guns/parts.

Well then you're right, that IS pretty goddamned worthless.

Wrong Again. Not scare tactic. I'm not talking drugs. Even though drugs have been increasing in availabilty over time and becoming cheaper.

All I'm saying is that you seem to be using the 'slippery slope' argument.

 

[merphie]

All I'm saying is that you seem to be using the 'slippery slope' argument.

I am not sure what you are referring too, but in this case I wouldn't have said it, if I didn't believe it. Think there is enough proof to show what their intensions are.

 

[heath]

Re: List of Sources

--- snip ---

(Incomplete research on foriegn countries)

UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/06/14/nmart14.xml
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/stats/bulletins/00276-05.asp
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3914289.stm
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hosb1101.pdf

AU
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066.html

I'd like to head this off before it's continued. Australia and the UK have vastly different experiences with guns than the US.

Neither have an equivalent to the 2nd amendment and very view people in both countries think we should have one (conveying the "right" to have/own guns). In the US where there IS the 2nd amendment to your constitution (that forms the cornerstone of many American's belief that guns ownership is a fundamental "right") and a history of gun ownership your experiences and opinions reflect your unique situation. Please stick to debating your situation rather than trying to impose it on us please.

 

[merphie]

Re: Re: List of Sources

I'd like to head this off before it's continued. Australia and the UK have vastly different experiences with guns than the US.

Neither have an equivalent to the 2nd amendment and very view people in both countries think we should have one (conveying the "right" to have/own guns). In the US where there IS the 2nd amendment to your constitution (that forms the cornerstone of many American's belief that guns ownership is a fundamental "right") and a history of gun ownership your experiences and opinions reflect your unique situation. Please stick to debating your situation rather than trying to impose it on us please.

Agreed. That's why I noted the "incomplete Research". I have become aware of making cross cultural comparisons.

While it appears the current political opinions are different it appears that England used to be closer to USA ideals at one time. I just haven't had the time to research that end of the subject.

 

[Ed]

Re: Re: List of Sources

I'd like to head this off before it's continued. Australia and the UK have vastly different experiences with guns than the US.

Neither have an equivalent to the 2nd amendment and very view people in both countries think we should have one (conveying the "right" to have/own guns). In the US where there IS the 2nd amendment to your constitution (that forms the cornerstone of many American's belief that guns ownership is a fundamental "right") and a history of gun ownership your experiences and opinions reflect your unique situation. Please stick to debating your situation rather than trying to impose it on us please.

I agree completely with this sentiment. The fact is that Europeans and Americans both seem to think that their way of handling a given problem is best and that does not get anyone anywhere.

For better or worse we have a culture where firearms play a part. That is a fact and as much part of our culture as any cultural characteristic anywhere in the world. I posted something once upon a time that listed when the old west guys died. My Dad certainly could have shaken hands with some of the better known ones. It was not really that long ago that we had a real honest to god frontier. When was the last contemporary use of the word in England for example? Perhaps referring to the land north of Hadrians Wall? Our experience is simply different and we have a differennt form of government. In many aspects of gun ownership states are soverign. You guys don't really have that in Europe. We also have the reality of 250,000,000 firearms floating around.

 

[merphie]

Received Letter From Representative

I recieved the following Email from my State Representative in regards to the letter I sent to her contained in the first post of this thread.
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Chris, thank you for the information. You did a great amount of study and wrote the essay in a very articulate manner. I appreciate your stand on the second amendment and applaud the Congress for letting this legislation expire.

Senator Wilcoxson

 

[merphie]

Letter Received From Tom Cole

I recieved the following Letter from US congress Representative Tom Cole in regards to the letter I sent to him contained in the first post of this thread.
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I am writing to update you on my efforts to protect the rights of all Americans under the Second Amendment.

As an NRA member, I will protect and preserve our Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms. The Second Amendment is a testament to the freedoms and liberties that Americans Enjoy. It, as much as any other part of Constitution, speaks to the Founding Father's belief in Self-reliant citizens and a limited role for the federal government. There is every reason to believe that unneccessary regulations on gun ownership violate the principles of which this nation was founded.

But there is another reason to support the Second Amendment.. Put simply, gun control does not work. As one example, Washington D.C has the strictest gun control laws in the nation, and also very high rates of violent crime. Washintgon D.C's law against gun ownership is both ineffective and against the spirit of the Constitution. That is why I am a cosponsor of H.R 3193, legislation repealing the current ban on all guns in Washington D.C. In addition, I am a cosponsor of H.R 1036, the protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. This legislation would prohibit gun manufacturers from being driver out of business by nuisance lawsuits. H.R 1036 passed the House on April 9, 2003 by a vote of 285 - 140.

As you might imagine, in our nation's capital, some people want all sorts of new regulations on gun ownership in violation of the Second Amendment. But I will continue to fight for the Second Amendment.

Sincerely,

signature

Tom Cole
Member of Congress