The Great Debate: "Has Science Refuted Religion?"

[Bad vibe]

The trouble is Limbo just doesn't get that there is no universal truth no "other" these experiences are similar across the world because they come from the same species regardless of locale. A turds a turd doesn't matter if a shaman passes it or a western mystic, consistancy, colour may vary but its still the same ole excrement.

 

[The Norseman]

All the "comparitive mysticism" you do are simply prose and poetry. Nothing wrong with that, but here's the irony: you mystics are doing a form of proto-science.

Hey! There's no call for insults here!

There can be no "science" involved beyond the event horizon of the formless, after all.

 

[The Norseman]

Sorry, but I don't accept the opinions of motivated skeptics who don't know what they are talking about because they haven't spent years studying that which they are skeptical toward. In other words, armchair pseudo-skeptics.

LOL

So I say, stfu and go study comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism for about a decade, as I have, and then experience mysticism first-hand as I have. Then I'll be interested in your opinions. Until then, you are an uninitiated thrall. You are the metaphorical equivalent to copper-tops trapped in the Matrix.

So when's your book coming out again, Mr. Christian Mystic?

"No one, as far as I know, has yet tried to compose into a single picture the new perspectives that have been opened in the fields of comparative symbolism, religion, mythology, and philosophy by the scholarship of recent years. The richly rewarded archaeological researches of the past few decades; astonishing clarifications, simplifications, and coordinations achieved by intensive studies in the spheres of philology, ethnology, philosophy, art history, folklore, and religion; fresh insights in psychological research; and the many priceless contributions to our science by the scholars, monks, and literary men of Asia, have combined to suggest a new image of the fundamental unity of the spiritual history of mankind.

Without straining beyond the treasuries of evidence already on hand in these widely scattered departments of our subject, therefore, but simply gathering from them the membra disjuncta of a unitary mythological science, I attempt in the following pages the first sketch of a natural history of the gods and heroes, such as in its final form should include in its purview all divine beings--not regarding any as sacrosanct or beyond its scientific domain. For, as in the visible world of the vegetable and animal kingdoms, so also in the visionary world of the gods: there has been a history, an evolution, a series of mutations, governed by laws; and to show forth such laws is the proper aim of science." -Joseph Campbell

A quote from Joseph Campbell from Limbo? How unusual!

Got anything insightful and original to say or is it just mystical regurgitation?

 

[Resume]

Sorry, but I don't accept the opinions of motivated skeptics who don't know what they are talking about because they haven't spent years studying that which they are skeptical toward. In other words, armchair pseudo-skeptics.

So I say, stfu and go study comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism for about a decade, as I have,

So for this ten years study all you have to present are hackneyed characters from vapid motion pictures, endless quotes from Joseph Campbell, book recommendations such as Practical Mysticism, and credulous claims of feats like astral projection?

 

[Halfcentaur]

Sorry, but I don't accept the opinions of motivated skeptics who don't know what they are talking about because they haven't spent years studying that which they are skeptical toward. In other words, armchair pseudo-skeptics.

So I say, stfu and go study comparative religion, comparative mythology, and comparative mysticism for about a decade, as I have, and then experience mysticism first-hand as I have. Then I'll be interested in your opinions. Until then, you are an uninitiated thrall. You are the metaphorical equivalent to copper-tops trapped in the Matrix.

"No one, as far as I know, has yet tried to compose into a single picture the new perspectives that have been opened in the fields of comparative symbolism, religion, mythology, and philosophy by the scholarship of recent years. The richly rewarded archaeological researches of the past few decades; astonishing clarifications, simplifications, and coordinations achieved by intensive studies in the spheres of philology, ethnology, philosophy, art history, folklore, and religion; fresh insights in psychological research; and the many priceless contributions to our science by the scholars, monks, and literary men of Asia, have combined to suggest a new image of the fundamental unity of the spiritual history of mankind.

Without straining beyond the treasuries of evidence already on hand in these widely scattered departments of our subject, therefore, but simply gathering from them the membra disjuncta of a unitary mythological science, I attempt in the following pages the first sketch of a natural history of the gods and heroes, such as in its final form should include in its purview all divine beings--not regarding any as sacrosanct or beyond its scientific domain. For, as in the visible world of the vegetable and animal kingdoms, so also in the visionary world of the gods: there has been a history, an evolution, a series of mutations, governed by laws; and to show forth such laws is the proper aim of science." -Joseph Campbell

It's so cute when someone who claims they are spiritually enlightened get's bogged down in such petty conversational tactics. He admits he is seriously here just to tell us what he knows and rub our noses in it, not to discuss his views and examine them. Not that there aren't plenty of skeptics here essentially doing the same thing, but you don't see them proclaiming their advanced spiritual levels and calling others spiritual children while being reduced to the arguments and quips you find children delighted to employ.
If only there was one true Scotsman here deemed worthy of his teachings.

 

[Halfcentaur]

As someone who has studied comparative religion and mythology for the last 20 years, it is amazing to me that someone finds the abundance of correlations found within these subjects is evidence of actual tangible secret truths pertaining to a supernatural world of spirits and archtypes.

The truth does not suggest these correlations are evidence of the divine, they clearly suggest human psychology is the culprit for these correlations.

 

[Lowpro]

As someone who has studied comparative religion and mythology for the last 20 years, it is amazing to me that someone finds the abundance of correlations found within these subjects is evidence of actual tangible secret truths pertaining to a supernatural world of spirits and archtypes.

The truth does not suggest these correlations are evidence of the divine, they clearly suggest human psychology is the culprit for these correlations.

Hey, if consistency is a measure of validity, then mystics at least can stroke themselves with being consistently wrong.

 

[Donn]

The Mystic Scotsman opens the Library door, hanging the "Do Not Reason" sign as passes. His spurs clump down the empty aisles to the Religion section. He raises his shotgun and blazes away.
The noise fades, echoing among the shelves. Shreds of paper settle upon his ten gallon hat. Smiling, he marks the sharp shots.

Once again he has hit every target. Now he alone possesses the revelation.

Suddenly, a momentary doubt in the smoke and gloom makes him duck. But he will rise again; for he is unsinkable.

 

[LibraryLady]

The Mystic Scotsman opens the Library door, hanging the "Do Not Reason" sign as passes. His spurs clump down the empty aisles to the Religion section. He raises his shotgun and blazes away.
The noise fades, echoing among the shelves. Shreds of paper settle upon his ten gallon hat. Smiling, he marks the sharp shots.

Once again he has hit every target. Now he alone possesses the revelation.

Suddenly, a momentary doubt in the smoke and gloom makes him duck. But he will rise again; for he is unsinkable.

 

[punshhh]

It's so cute when someone who claims they are spiritually enlightened get's bogged down in such petty conversational tactics. He admits he is seriously here just to tell us what he knows and rub our noses in it, not to discuss his views and examine them. Not that there aren't plenty of skeptics here essentially doing the same thing, but you don't see them proclaiming their advanced spiritual levels and calling others spiritual children while being reduced to the arguments and quips you find children delighted to employ.
If only there was one true Scotsman here deemed worthy of his teachings.

I was born in Scotland

 

[Limbo]

In Scotland do the swine moan and whine when you toss pearls?

 

[Resume]

As someone who has studied comparative religion and mythology for the last 20 years, it is amazing to me that someone finds the abundance of correlations found within these subjects is evidence of actual tangible secret truths pertaining to a supernatural world of spirits and archtypes.

The truth does not suggest these correlations are evidence of the divine, they clearly suggest human psychology is the culprit for these correlations.

What I'd like for one of these mystics to do is maybe mystic up a Middle East solution; perhaps shamanize a higher yielding wheat hybrid.

Instead what we get are maudlin personal meanderings apparently produced by perturbed brain states. Anyone can accomplish that.

 

[dafydd]

Quite, the diligent mystic is the most rational of all.

That is the funniest thing that you have ever posted on this site. Limbo claims to have danced on the dark side of the Moon and walked with a goddess. How rational is that? Do you believe him?

 

[dafydd]

Hey! There's no call for insults here!

There can be no "science" involved beyond the event horizon of the formless, after all.

We're still waiting to hear what this beyond the event horizon of the formless is. Punshhh?

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Lets face it Emsworth….the understanding of religion and religious motivations and experiences portrayed by the typical JREF resident (especially on the R&P threads) barely approaches kindergarten level…not to mention the incoherent positions so frequently presented to ridicule it (the ‘company line’)…as Westprog quite accurately pointed out:

Hmmmm, the problem with that is, that you are not describing "the typical JREF resident" -- let alone myself. You are rather describing something else entirely. In my very first post in this thread I somewhat complained about the participants of the discussion that is the nominal subject matter of selfsame. You can take that as a hint.

Religious activity / spirituality is a vast and complex area that goes to the very heart of what it means to be a human being (anybody who’s taken the time to actually study the matter […ie: look at the evidence..] will know this)…the exact same place where all our thoughts and feelings occur and originate. You cannot isolate religious / spiritual issues into single simplistic functions any more than you can isolate any other human experience into single simplistic functions. They are all fundamentally intertwined. Therefore the ‘feelings’ that are involved in the adjudication, experience, and activity of religion / spirituality are no different than those involved in every other area of life and are very often if not invariably interconnected with it. For example….one of the defining issues referred to in many traditions / religions is the phenomenon known as ‘love’. Quite obviously, this is a condition that is equally relevant across the entire human landscape.

Sure, that may be one aspect.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

In Scotland do the swine moan and whine when you toss pearls?

I'd have to ask McAllister about the pigs in Scotland. In Shropshire, and I assume that that is the case elsewhere too, pigs prefer more nourishing food.

 

[dafydd]

I'd have to ask McAllister about the pigs in Scotland. In Shropshire, and I assume that that is the case elsewhere too, pigs prefer more nourishing food.

Limbo is living under the delusion that his daft claims are pearls of wisdom? Lord love a duck! I'm still waiting to hear if punshhh believes that Limbo has danced on the dark side of the Moon.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Limbo is living under the delusion that his daft claims are pearls of wisdom?

I think that is a trait called humility.

 

[The Norseman]

What I'd like for one of these mystics to do is maybe mystic up a Middle East solution; perhaps shamanize a higher yielding wheat hybrid.

Instead what we get are maudlin personal meanderings apparently produced by perturbed brain states. Anyone can accomplish that.

Or dance up the rains in sub-Saharan Africa. I'm sure that the crops there, meager as they are, really could use it.

Or how about fevers? There are still many fevers that humans have that are currently unexplained by modern medicine. Maybe a true humanitarian could mystic up a few answers in that regard too. Ask God, perhaps. Take hallucinogens which tap into the primordial spiritual plane and come back with the answer that'd help save dozens of lives or more.

Nah. It seems to be far better to dance on the dark side of the moon or travel beyond the event horizon of the formless. Cool, I suppose, but I'm just not seeing any benefit to humans or the planet or to other animals or to ethics or to physics or to emotions or to...

 

[The Norseman]

I think that is a trait called humility.

Are you claiming that Limbo exhibits humility in any of his posts here? Is that a joke?