The Gospel

kmortis said:
Nope. (Janet's gonna kill me for this) Farrarian. We wore red and ran around REALLY fast.

I did manage to irritate an Alexandrian Priest by insisting to always call the cakes and ale the "body and the blood". Also, I used to use smilie faces for my calling pentacles. He HATED that. THen I told him it was his own gamned fault for putting a Discordian in the West.
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BWAHAHAAA! Gah, that was great.

And when forming the Circle, did you ever do the Hokey Pokey?
 
Nex said:
BWAHAHAAA! Gah, that was great.

And when forming the Circle, did you ever do the Hokey Pokey?
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See, this is why I can't be religious. In the middle of these serious (!) things, I get the snorting Monty Python giggles thinking about how much sillier I could make them.

Skepticism achieved via a low threshhold for the ridiculous.
 
SuperCoolGuy said:
According to you, Hell is the dwelling place for those that did not understand God's message. I refuse to turn my back on people whose only crime was simple ignorance.

If God truly wanted everyone in Heaven, God will let everyone in Heaven. Claiming God cannot accomplish what he wants is an insult to God's omnipotence.

Your religion insults God. Your religion accuses God of a bloodlust satisfied by murdering innocents. Your religion awards unquestioned faith in it's doctrine and punishes unquestioned faith in other, similar doctrines. Your religion limits God's omnipotence. Your religion renders God's creation of man an utter failure. Your religion reduces God to a faulty being little different than Zeus or Ahura Mazda.

Do you love God? Or do you love the promise of eternal bliss?

Do you love God through seeking the truth? Or do you love God out of ignorance?

Do you love God because you hate the world. Or do you love God because you think He makes the world so much nicer for you now that you are a Christian.

Yeah, this world isn't perfect. But neither is your version of God. Not by a long shot.

You want me to accuse God of screwing up the creation of man, killing a version of Himself that hurt God so much that His suffering makes up for all the sins man has committed, and banishing those that don't know, understand, or accept this concept to the eternal fires of Hell.

It takes monumental selfishness or convoluted apologetics to love your version of God.
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Nominated!
 
kurious_kathy said:
RT, I understand you love people and care deeply about life and things that affect it. I do too. I love people, but I love God more. And ultimately I understand He is in control of everything. Even the bad stuff.
I don't know why you would say I want people dead and suffering. I myself have lived with chronic pain and don't like suffering. Why would I wish that on anyone? You really don't know what I'm trying to share at all. No matter what we go through in life, God wants to use it for good somehow. I don't know how, but I believe He does. Maybe some of the bad stuff is to help us see we can't make it on our own? I need God and other people. Don't you think God uses people to reach others? I do."No man is an island."
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First: Don't EVER patronize me again. Ever. Got that? Nothing pisses me off more than that. If you'd done that in person, I'd have torn you a new one, and enjoyed doing it.

Second: Read through some of what you've written here. Think for a moment about how it comes across. It's utterly barbaric.

I would suggest you read through this thread,
and see what you're espousing. This child should never have suffered like this. His parents grieve. They are in pain. They should not be.

I shouldn't have had to see a child screaming for his baby brother as they lowered the casket into the ground, because the older brother thought his baby brother should have come back to play. I shouldn't have had to see my friends crying and hurting, suffering great pain because they lost someone so sweet, and so young. This was supposed to bring them closer to God? How? How was this supposed to make them love God more? You remind me of my idiot brother-in-law who made his insipid remarks about Dona and her lack of Church attendance. Frankly, if I'd had my winch bar handy when he made that remark, I'd have crushed his f***ing jaw.

We suffer in this life. That is part of life. Some of us suffer more, others less, but in the end, we all suffer at some point. To attribute that suffering to God "trying to draw us to Him" is damnable. It is demeaning to anyone who has endured pain. It's like Oral Roberts and his declarations that God would heal you if only you believed enough. That's hateful and cruel. The Bible itself says you can't believe enough, and yet if you had the faith of a mustard seed, it would be enough. Just how the hell is someone supposed to live, with a contradiction like that?

I have had one miserable few weeks. Today, I got more bad news, (I'll share it in the appropriate thread), and if anything, I'm thinking that if God is trying to "draw me to Him," He's doing a sorry assed job of it.

You don't care one way or another about the people here. You preach and preach and preach, and for what? So you can tell the fine folks at Church, "See, I'm witnessing to the lost!"

Wow. I'm so "blessed." (Pass the Stugeron, Tim. Before I blow chunks all over my monitor.)

Let me clue you into something, Kiddo: before you can lead us to the light, you have to have see the light. There's nothing enlightened in the attitudes you have expressed here. You're no better than Amy Wilson, or Jedi Knight, or Franko. You have verbally assaulted people here for daring to question your motives, (which you kept hidden until Fowlsound and others ferreted them out), you have attributed misery to God's will, and you have become petulant when you've been confronted with the pain you've caused. I look at the incredible frustration of Pauliesonne, and can't help but agree with it. And Paulie's tried to be civil to you!

You want us to listen? Show us something worth listening TO. Try some compassion. Try to show some empathy. Try to listen once in a while.

I will remind you of a Christian lady I know well: my wife. Peggy prays for the people on this board. I tell her what's going on, and she prays. And if I want to see what Jesus does through someone, I look at my wife who's making clothes for people who need them. I look at her fixing meals for people who hunger. I see her visiting sick friends, and trying to offer comfort to those who grieve, who is not making statements that even approach the barbarity of yours.

My wife's prayers are expressed in her hands. When she cooks, sews, and comforts. She doesn't preach the Gospel. She tries to live it. If Fowlsound were living closer, or being treated at UC Davis, she'd be there with him holding his hand. She wouldn't be telling him "God's trying to draw you to Him." She'd be asking, "Can I get you something? Some cola? (I don't know if I could smuggle a beer in for you.)" If Tim were here, she'd be asking Lynn how to make Bubble and Squeak. (I think that's it. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) If Suezoled or Lost Angeles were here, I'd vacate the house. (Sorry, that's just too girly-girl for me. Gotta be careful: Girl 6 is only an hour and a half away.)

The last time I checked, that was the Gospel. It is the outward expression of a divine inner compassion. If I had to go by the evidence, you have yet to express that. Doesn't mean you don't have it, but I don't see it.

Sorry, Babe. If God were drawing us to Him in that way, there would be little reason to listen. If it were a human being doing that to us, we would call it abuse.
 
YouBelieveWHAT? said:
Right KK,

I'm beginning to see the message:

God loves everybody.
He chose to intervene and save you, but not Slingblade.
He chose to intervene and save you, but not the millions who died in the Holocaust.
He chose to intervene and save you, but not my mother, who died recently after eight years of Alzheimer's, and was a good Christian - though unlikely to be able to pray meaningfully in her later years.

Obviously, I could go on, but I think I've made the point!

To me it seems that you're a very impressionable woman who has had a bad life - and you have my deep sympathy about that - but is unable, or unwilling to think for yourself.

YBW
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Maybe you're looking at it wrong--god just decided to take those people home to start their "happily ever after" early--like Andrea Yates' children.

Remember all the people praying on airplanes on 9-11?-- I wonder if god was answering to Allah that day? And those Virginia miners--boy he sure punked those miners' family members didn't he?
 
Well - articulett - I know that's the "official" line, and in my mother's case that's what the minister actually said.

God also fed the Israelites in the desert with Manna - but presumably lost the recipe, as he didn't do the same in Ethiopia, Eritrea, etc.

God's apparently testing us with pain and suffering - yup - that's a really kind, caring, loving Father, huh? When something good happens, He get's the credit, but if it's bad....

I've recently been llking into the history of Christianity, and read that most of the stories are just that - and have been copied & "improved" from earlier religions. I've also read that - of course :) - Christians view all such prior religions as myths & fables.

So - where does that leave God? (not sure which smiley is most appropriate here! :) )

Roadtoad - as ever you write with an easy-to-read style and explain things in a clear, compelling manner. You have a philosophy of life that KK could benefit from, if only she'd listen/read and think, especially as you've come through the hard knocks with dignity, and learned from them.

So , when you start your religion, PM me - I'll be one of the first to sign up!

:) ;)

YBW - disciple of Roadtoad!

Edit to add - if God really existed, He'd make sure that speeling mistooks could never happen!
 
Nex said:
BWAHAHAAA! Gah, that was great.

And when forming the Circle, did you ever do the Hokey Pokey?
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No, but I did structure a ritual like a Neofuturist play. I broke it into 30 parts, then numbered 30 pieces of paper - 1 to 30, each with a ritual section title on the back - then the "congregation" shouted out numbers and that's the portion that we did. This ritual featured: an inspirational reading from Playgirl (I let the Holy Mistress of all Rhutabagas choose the material), a tarot reading with only five cards in the deck (all 0 Fool cards from five of the same deck), a Southern Subgenius Sermon, and a Calling of the Goddess (who was just thrown in jail on drug charges). IIRC, we closed the circle before we opened it, and the Holy Sacrament were Twinkies and OJ.

<sniff> Good times.

Later, I heard from my buddy who's group it was that I Shanghi'd. Apparently, the majority of the responses he got were favorable, but there were quite a few "open-minded" Wiccans who were distinctly displeased.
 
My ex-in-laws are "born again" Christians (at least in their own minds...) They go to the largest Southern Baptist church here in Houston three or four times a week. Keep in mind that I've known these people since I was 11 and until I was about 23 I never saw any evidence that they even considered themselves Christian. They certainly didn't raise their precious son in any organized religion, while I was brought up singing in the Episcopal church choir on Sunday and reformed synagogue on Saturday (my first youth choir master was Herff Applewhite.)

After my marriage to their only son, they apparently received the word of God or some other such nonsense. By the time my daughter (one of two grandchildren they have, both girls) was born, they were firmly ensconsed as born again Christians and preaching to everybody they came within 10 feet of. Of course, that didn't stop them from not believing a word that I was telling them about the illegal activities of their baby boy, nor from completely blaming me for divorcing said baby boy.

Fast forward 14 years and their precious son gets into major trouble and spends a year in jail. His mother tells me it's all my fault because he had to steal to support the four kids (my daughter and his current wife's three kids by her two ex-husbands -- convoluted yet?) The day that man went to jail is the last time that my daughter has talked to her father or her grandparents... Not because she didn't try, but because they didn't and still won't. They live five minutes away from us, literally, and haven't picked up the phone to talk to one of the two granddaughters that they have in almost four years. My -- what fine, upstanding Christians they are!

The last time I talked to my ex-mother-in-law, she was crying and saying that she was going to go re-read the Book of Job because she "didn't know what she had done to deserve a son like this"... I told her that bible might help if she went and beat the crap out of her son with it.

My point to this story is -- isn't one of the main tenants of Christianity that one should live their lives as an example? That you should strive to bring people into the fold by example, not by words? My daughter won't have anything to do with organized religion primarily because of the example that her grandparents have shown her.

Kk -- do you feel that your actions and example here have helped people "see the light"? Have you set a good and Godly example for the heathens amongst us to follow? So far, we've shown you how the people who say they follow a good and loving God have hurt us and the people we love and you've responded with platitudes...
 
The Mutha said:
Kk -- do you feel that your actions and example here have helped people "see the light"? Have you set a good and Godly example for the heathens amongst us to follow? So far, we've shown you how the people who say they follow a good and loving God have hurt us and the people we love and you've responded with platitudes...
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All I have said is that God can and does change lives. I was once a lost girl in a lost world with no hope or direction. Now in christ I see clearly and what the world needs now is love sweet love. God is love!

1 John 1: 4-7...These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete. God Is Light ,This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

My life theme song..."Amazing Grace"
 
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Roadtoad said:
I like real. Real is good.
I like Supercorgi. Met her at TAM. She's funny, cheerful, wise, and worth knowing. She's also honest to a fault, and you almost hate to fault her for it. I don't agree with everything she says, but she'd be welcome in my home any time.
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Gosh, gee. :blush: I like you too Roadtoad. You're articulate, eloquent, and intelligent. I wish I could write a 1/10 as well as you do. I would be proud to claim you as a friend. :)
 
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kurious_kathy said:
RT, I understand you love people and care deeply about life and things that affect it. I do too. I love people, but I love God more. And ultimately I understand He is in control of everything.
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So you're saying that since you love god more than you love people, if god told you to mistreat or kill someone, you'd go ahead and do it? Sick, sick, sick.
I don't know why you would say I want people dead and suffering. I myself have lived with chronic pain and don't like suffering. Why would I wish that on anyone?
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Hmmm...lets see now:
  1. You love god.
  2. You want all people to come to faith through Jesus and find god.
  3. God uses pain and suffering to bring people to faith.
  4. You want people to have faith.
  5. Therefore, you want people to have pain and suffering so that they will have faith.
Can you see why we find your viewpoint so repugnant? (Oh why do I ask silly questions? Of course you can't, you're unable to see past your own pride at being "saved."
You really don't know what I'm trying to share at all.
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Yes we do and we find it:
  1. Narrow-minded
  2. Bigoted
  3. Hateful
Maybe some of the bad stuff is to help us see we can't make it on our own? I need God and other people.
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See? You do want people to suffer because then they may believe in your god.
 
kurious_kathy said:
All I have said is that God can and does change lives. I was once a lost girl in a lost world with no hope or direction. Now in christ I see clearly and what the world needs now is love sweet love. God is love!

My life theme song..."Amazing Grace"
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Kathy, you sure love to hear yourself talk. Take a hint, we DON'T.
 
Ok Kathy, so riddle me this:
Why did god intervene in your life? What makes you so special out of the billions of people in need of help on this Earth? Are you more deserving than the little children caught in the Iraqi conflict? How about those miners in West Virginia? The folks on those planes, the towers, and the pentagon on 9/11? Or the poor guy I saw on my way to work yesterday, holding a sign saying “hungry, please help”? What kind of god says, “Eh, screw ‘em; but Kathy’s my girl, I’ll help her out”?.

You aren’t giving credit where credit is due. You helped yourself, and I’m sure you had friends and family who helped and supported you. You, however, are deluding yourself into believing that some supernatural miracle is responsible for your improved situation in life.

Kinda reminds me of an old Anthax lyric about Jim Baker (the PTL dude, emphasis mine): “If God talks to YOU, there’s no hope”.

The gospel’s not offensive, your self-righteousness is.
 
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