The Gospel

kurious_kathy said:
... I pray that God will show you sin is real so that perhaps someday you may choose to be more open to what the Bible has to tell us.
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I am absolutely appalled at this sadistic and cruel wish of yours.

Words fail me.

...

Do you realize what you're even saying?...


No, no, of course you don't. Nevermind.
 
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Hi KK,

You've missed the point of what I wrote - maybe deliberately.

There is now, has always been, and will continue to be a huge amount of suffering in the world. God could, with a wave of His hand, remove this.

If all of this suffering is in some way to prepare us for "something", then it still makes no sense for a kind, caring God to allow it.

Out of deference to Mum's beliefs, her funeral was a religious event. The minister said that God had taken her away, and removed her suffering. If that's the case, why wait eight years? Why not after five by when she had basically became a "vegetable"? Of course Mum's family and friends also suffered - it was very bad for my sister in particular - because of the Altzheimer's, but that's often something that people like you tend to forget, concentrating only on the so-called fact that she's now in heaven, so everthing's alright.

In the real world, of course, such diseases are caused by our bodies wearing out. In the same way that a chicken is an egg's way of making another egg, we - as animals (I guess that's another thing you won't accept!) are really only here to create and nurture the next generation. Once that's done, our bodies fall into ruin, decay and finally death.

If there is some benevolent supernatural being out there, He's clearly happy to ignore all of this - not very benevolent in my view.

YBW
 
kurious_kathy said:
And just because many of you don't agree with Christian thinking doesn't make it wrong. It just means to me that many of you haven't come to terms with sin being real yet. I pray that God will show you sin is real so that perhaps someday you may choose to be more open to what the Bible has to tell us.
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Many of us believe that doing things wrong is bad, that being a bad person is bad, that doing evil and cruel things to anyone else is bad. We can believe those things and try to abstain from doing those things because they're bad, not because they are a "sin" to some imaginary friend we don't want to offend. So please don't pull that tired old "you just don't want to be a christian because you don't want to have to act right" crap on us. It's one of my biggest gripes about so-called christians.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Honesty and integrety is something I think we all must strive for.
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No one here would disagree. I don't speak for all normally, but on this point, I choose to do so with confidence. No one here would disagree.

kurious_kathy said:
And just because many of you don't agree with Christian thinking doesn't make it wrong.
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And just because you don't agree with Atheist thinking doesn't make it wrong.
It goes both ways.

kurious_kathy said:
It just means to me that many of you haven't come to terms with sin being real yet.
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I'm going to defend your assumption on a sample basis. Your definition of sin is along the lines of "breaking God's rules". If we don't acknowledge that we are breaking God's rules, we will not realize that we are sinning.

So first, one must believe in God. Then, one must know what God's rules are. Then that person will know what sin is and that it is "real".

kurious_kathy said:
I pray that God will show you sin is real so that perhaps someday you may choose to be more open to what the Bible has to tell us.
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Perhaps you should first pray that God shows himself to us. Then, that God shows us that the Bible is truly his word.

Otherwise, it sounds like you are implying that atheist and non-Christians don't recognize what is harmful to humanity and how to avoid it, that they can't live moral lives without fear of Hell or comfort in eternal bliss.

And maybe you just say things without tact sometimes. But the more I think about it . . .

You want us to recognize how bad sin is so that we can see how great the Bible is. Based on your personal account of your own conversion, I'm taking it to mean you want our sinful lives to be so painful and bad that it forces us to look for some clarity and sense of purpose outside of ourselves so that our lives become nice and pleasant.

You want us to use Christianity to show ourselves how unethical and irresponsible behavior leads to a life of suffering. I could see that as an insult, but through your eyes, I see that as a recommendation based on personal experience.

Jesus works for Kathy. Jesus works for Kathy's family and friends. Jesus will work for everybody.

I'm here to tell you, Jesus doesn't work for me. Jesus doesn't work for a lot of other people on this forum. Jesus HAS NOT WORKED for EVERYBODY.

kurious_kathy said:
And just because many of you don't agree with Christian thinking doesn't make it wrong.
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And just because you don't agree with Atheist thinking doesn't make it wrong.
It goes both ways.
 
I like real. Real is good.

Pauliesonne, he's real. He might piss me off on occasion, but when push comes to shove, he stands up, tells you what he thinks, (regardless of what YOU think), and in the end, proves he's a better friend than most because he trusts you to accept him in spite of your differences.

I like Wolfgirl. She's real. Honest to a fault. Solid. Does her homework. Comes across as one very compassionate woman. I like that.

I like Supercorgi. Met her at TAM. She's funny, cheerful, wise, and worth knowing. She's also honest to a fault, and you almost hate to fault her for it. I don't agree with everything she says, but she'd be welcome in my home any time.

I like Nex. Another person who's genuine; real. I like Nex's courage. I wish I had more, and was willing to take the stands that Nex takes. Not many people can and do, which is what makes Nex so wonderful.

I like Fowlsound. Tough as hell. Courageous. Has taken on his own body, and come out ahead. I don't know as he'd be willing to try natural childbirth, (*now THAT'S tough!), but I know there's damned little this world has to throw at him that he can't handle.

I like Hutch. Kind. Honest. Hardworking. He gives of himself, and I find myself wishing I could follow that kind of mercy, that I could be half as generous of my time and resources. (The man coaches youth soccer. How much better can a person be?)

I like Slingblade. Came out of a tough situation, and not only survived, but has now thrived. Some tough challenges ahead, but I'm willing to bet that she'll come through with flying colors.

I don't agree with the philosophies of these folks. We argue. We fight. We disagree. But I'll back 'em in a heartbeat. When they're wrong, they admit it and adjust. They stand by their friends. They're good people. I could only wish I were half as good.

That's the thing you ought to be seeing, Kathy. But, you have these Bible Goggles on, and you only see things in black and white. It wouldn't be so bad, except your black is white, and your white is black. You're so proud you're so humble. You love everyone, so long as they love the same God you do; if they don't, you want them dead and suffering.

Wow. Just makes me want to drop EVERYTHING so I can come and worship your jesus (note the lowercase) right alongside you.

Not.

Sorry, Kathy. Your god and I have little in common. I'll pass.
 
RT, you've got a heart of gold and the courage to show it. That's pretty damned good too, you know.

Who needs some amorphous god when we've got each other?


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ETA: OK, OK, enough mushy stuff. Bob forbid we end up having a group hug or something. :D
 
Roadtoad said:
I like real. Real is good.

That's the thing you ought to be seeing, Kathy. But, you have these Bible Goggles on, and you only see things in black and white. It wouldn't be so bad, except your black is white, and your white is black. You're so proud you're so humble. You love everyone, so long as they love the same God you do; if they don't, you want them dead and suffering.

Wow. Just makes me want to drop EVERYTHING so I can come and worship your jesus (note the lowercase) right alongside you.

Not.

Sorry, Kathy. Your god and I have little in common. I'll pass.
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RT, I understand you love people and care deeply about life and things that affect it. I do too. I love people, but I love God more. And ultimately I understand He is in control of everything. Even the bad stuff.
I don't know why you would say I want people dead and suffering. I myself have lived with chronic pain and don't like suffering. Why would I wish that on anyone? You really don't know what I'm trying to share at all. No matter what we go through in life, God wants to use it for good somehow. I don't know how, but I believe He does. Maybe some of the bad stuff is to help us see we can't make it on our own? I need God and other people. Don't you think God uses people to reach others? I do."No man is an island."
 
So, God isn't capable of thwacking someone on the head directly? He proves his existence by causing the torture and death of an innocent bystander to make a point to make YOU believe?

Wow. God as the a drive-by shooter.
 
bluess said:
Oh - does hating your father and mother count under the 'Respect your mom and dad' requirement? Because didn't Jesus say unless a man hateth his father and mother he cannot follow the Lord?
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I just came acrros the verses today that I was trying to remember when you brought this up last week. I found it in Matt 10:32-39...
"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn " 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw— a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I have already lost my life to gain Christ. I know many of you can't understand unless you come to a saving faith, but I will say again the light is so much better. Amazing Grace is what the world needs now. Wake up those that are still asleep for time is running out. Jesus is coming back to take us home, don't you want to be there? Heaven is a perfect place, this world isn't.
 
:s2:

Same ol' same ol'. . .

Better come up with some new material, kathy. You're not impressing anybody.
 
Unfortunately, the rule in my personal experience. It's useless trying to have a conversation with them for the most part. They only hear what their preacher tells them to hear...
 
kurious_kathy said:
Wake up those that are still asleep for time is running out. Jesus is coming back to take us home, don't you want to be there? Heaven is a perfect place, this world isn't.
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According to you, Hell is the dwelling place for those that did not understand God's message. I refuse to turn my back on people whose only crime was simple ignorance.

If God truly wanted everyone in Heaven, God will let everyone in Heaven. Claiming God cannot accomplish what he wants is an insult to God's omnipotence.

Your religion insults God. Your religion accuses God of a bloodlust satisfied by murdering innocents. Your religion awards unquestioned faith in it's doctrine and punishes unquestioned faith in other, similar doctrines. Your religion limits God's omnipotence. Your religion renders God's creation of man an utter failure. Your religion reduces God to a faulty being little different than Zeus or Ahura Mazda.

Do you love God? Or do you love the promise of eternal bliss?

Do you love God through seeking the truth? Or do you love God out of ignorance?

Do you love God because you hate the world. Or do you love God because you think He makes the world so much nicer for you now that you are a Christian.

Yeah, this world isn't perfect. But neither is your version of God. Not by a long shot.

You want me to accuse God of screwing up the creation of man, killing a version of Himself that hurt God so much that His suffering makes up for all the sins man has committed, and banishing those that don't know, understand, or accept this concept to the eternal fires of Hell.

It takes monumental selfishness or convoluted apologetics to love your version of God.
 
Kathy,
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
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Interestingly enough, I saw those very words written boldly on a flag with the picture of a cross above the words. The flag belonged to a group of right wing Christian Militia. It was featured on a documentary about Foundamentalist Christian Militia movements in the United States.

These Militia groups are stockpiling huge arsenals of weapons, ready for use when their version of Armegeddon comes. They must be ready to defend themselves when the time of Christian persecution starts up again. Of course, the best defense is a good offense. Don't expect these guys to wait around for the persecutions to come to them; it is best to elliminate the enemy before they have time to start the persecutions!

I guess these Christian Militia folks don't believe in the rapture.
 
The_Fire said:
And people wonder why I converted to paganism..........

ETA: A question to all you rational people out there: Are kK the rule or the exception in the US?
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I'm finding out that they're the exception. Now, you have to understand that most Christians of any flavor are very happy to keep to themselves. I have a couple of friends where we will take on roles that are more extreme than what we really believe (or in my case, don't believe) to make debate possible - as opposed to being "Jesus is Lord."; "I don't think that's true."; "Ok, well that's you opinion."

As for me, I origionally converted to Paganism for the chicks and cheese dip.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I just came acrros the today that I was trying to remember when you brought this up last week. I found it in

I have already lost my life to gain . I know many of you can't understand unless you come to a , but I will say again the is so much better. Amazing Grace is what the world needs now. Wake up those that are still asleep for time is running out. is coming back to take us home, don't you want to be there? , this world isn't.
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Look how much crap I had to take out before I could look at your post and not vomit.
 
The_Fire said:
Ahh...A Traditional Gardnerian? You know, skyclad and all that?;)
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Nope. (Janet's gonna kill me for this) Farrarian. We wore red and ran around REALLY fast.

I did manage to irritate an Alexandrian Priest by insisting to always call the cakes and ale the "body and the blood". Also, I used to use smilie faces for my calling pentacles. He HATED that. THen I told him it was his own gamned fault for putting a Discordian in the West.
 
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