The Gospel

kurious_kathy said:
Who are you to judge me? I believe everything I share here whether you like it or not. I would appreciate it if you would quit pointing fingers at me RT, you are the one who is playing judge and I don't like it.

I believe we need to compare ourselve to God's Laws and realize we need a Savior to redeem us.Let's recap shall we....

1. Love God Most Of All
2. Worship Only God
3. Respect God's Name
4. Takes One Day A Week To Rest And Worship God
5. Respect Mom And Dad
6. Don't Kill
7. Be Faithful To Your Spouse
8. Don't Steal
9. Always Tell The Truth
10. Be Content With What You Have

Don't you believe in the 10 Commandments? I do and it is quite difficult to remember my past and know God is the only one that can forgive us for breaking those commandments. I myself know I need Jesus. I don't deserve Him, but I need Him. This is my belief.
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That's your belief. That's nice.

The nice thing about my not believing in God is I don't have to worry about #s 1-4, and I don't need God to tell me to follow #s 5-8. #s 9 & 10 are just stupid. "Always tell the truth"? So if you ask your hubby "Does this dress make my butt look big?" you wouldn't mind if he said "Well, not compared to some hippopotami I've seen."

And #10 is just another "Keep the sheeple in line" rule. I was raised to want to better myself, to have it better than my parents had it. Don't let it consume your life, sure. But if you're content with everything, things never get any better.

For rules to live by, I'll take the Wiccan Rede any day: "An it harm none, do what thou wilt." 90% less BS than the 10 Commandments, but it contains the best of their ideas.
 
bluess said:
Oh - does hating your father and mother count under the 'Respect your mom and dad' requirement? Because didn't Jesus say unless a man hateth his father and mother he cannot follow the Lord?
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I don't think that's exactly the correct way to interpret what Jesus said. He said that in some families it would seperate us from them. I think a good example of this is what still goes on in other countries when people convert to Christianity.
We haven't really seen people put to death in the US for their faith yet. I just hope we never do! Although I do worry that some people here would feed me to the lions if they were given the chance.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I don't think that's exactly the correct way to interpret what Jesus said. He said that in some families it would seperate us from them. I think a good example of this is what still goes on in other countries when people convert to Christianity.
We haven't really seen people put to death in the US for their faith yet. I just hope we never do! Although I do worry that some people here would feed me to the lions if they were given the chance.
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I don't have a problem with your faith. I have a problem with your lack of understanding of a variety of human disciplines, your apparent lack of empathy and your ongoing unwillingness to directly answer questions put to you. None of those would result in my throwing you to the lions.

Maybe to catnip enraged tabby cats.....;)
 
kurious_kathy said:
1. Love God Most Of All
2. Worship Only God
3. Respect God's Name
4. Takes One Day A Week To Rest And Worship God
5. Respect Mom And Dad
6. Don't Kill
7. Be Faithful To Your Spouse
8. Don't Steal
9. Always Tell The Truth
10. Be Content With What You Have

Don't you believe in the 10 Commandments?
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We can believe in some of these commandments without believing they come from a divine source. The first four, however, have nothing to do with morals or decency but only with praying and kissing up to your invisible sky-friend. The rest are common-sense applications that most people can manage to figure out on their own. Do you think that people in other religions without these commandments (ie. most of the people in the world) can't figure out not to kill each other? Do you think those of us with no religion at all simply steal from each other and screw each other's spouses at will because we don't have a god that gave us these magic words? Get a grip on reality, woman!
 
wolfgirl said:
We can believe in some of these commandments without believing they come from a divine source. The first four, however, have nothing to do with morals or decency but only with praying and kissing up to your invisible sky-friend. The rest are common-sense applications that most people can manage to figure out on their own. Do you think that people in other religions without these commandments (ie. most of the people in the world) can't figure out not to kill each other? Do you think those of us with no religion at all simply steal from each other and screw each other's spouses at will because we don't have a god that gave us these magic words? Get a grip on reality, woman!
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I'm not saying people aren't capable of being moral at all. The commandments are something that reflect morality. The concern I have for many people is if God is not your God, then who is?

Some say they are there own God which is the world according to them. Or some have said their kids are their gods, or their spouse, house, car, boat, job, ect.... But if we are a fallen race then our vision is cloudy. Anything we make more important than God becomes an idol. We are warned not to make any idols or graven images which become our God.

Atheists have expressed they have no belief in a God. Well maybe if you think about what you idolize then you might see you have made something your idol. Perhaps it's your own intellect that you idolize? Who or what do you make more important than God?

I choose to look to the one true God, Jesus is the way. We know God through His word and nothing holds a candle to Him. In the past I let other things get in the way, now I don't and believe I see it more clearly each day!
 
kurious_kathy said:
I'm not saying people aren't capable of being moral at all. The commandments are something that reflect morality. The concern I have for many people is if God is not your God, then who is?
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You can't seem to quite grasp the concept of not believing in a God, can you?

kurious_kathy said:
Some say they are there own God which is the world according to them. Or some have said their kids are their gods, or their spouse, house, car, boat, job, ect.... But if we are a fallen race then our vision is cloudy. Anything we make more important than God becomes an idol. We are warned not to make any idols or graven images which become our God.
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I have never known a single person who seriously claims that they are their own god or that some human is a god, even thought it may be spoken of humorously.

But I find that Christians are the worst about having idols. They'll pray to some crying statue or to some gory image of Jesus on a cross or to a monument to the Ten Commandments, or to a stained glass window, or even to a grilled cheese sandwich with a burn mark that looks a little bit like what they imagine Jesus looked like. Does your church have any icons of any kind? I'm betting it does.

Your definition of "idol" is totally warped by your religious prejudice. To an atheist, every real thing is more important than God because they don't believe in God. Is every real thing an idol? Get serious. I believe that dental hygene is more important than God, but I don't idolize my toothbrush.

kurious_kathy said:
Atheists have expressed they have no belief in a God. Well maybe if you think about what you idolize then you might see you have made something your idol. Perhaps it's your own intellect that you idolize? Who or what do you make more important than God?
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See above. Everything is more important than god, but we don't worship anything. We don't idolize intellect, though we may respect it. I can see a very smart person and yet realize that he/she is surely wrong about some things. Can you do that with God?

kurious_kathy said:
I choose to look to the one true God, Jesus is the way. We know God through His word and nothing holds a candle to Him. In the past I let other things get in the way, now I don't and believe I see it more clearly each day!
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I know what you believe, but it is faith, not fact. And it doesn't seem to me that you are seeing more clearly. In fact, quite the opposite. It's hard to tell much about reality when you are looking at it through stained glass.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I'm not saying people aren't capable of being moral at all. The commandments are something that reflect morality. The concern I have for many people is if God is not your God, then who is?
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Why do I need a God?

Some say they are there own God which is the world according to them. Or some have said their kids are their gods, or their spouse, house, car, boat, job, ect.... But if we are a fallen race then our vision is cloudy. Anything we make more important than God becomes an idol. We are warned not to make any idols or graven images which become our God.
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Do you wear a cross pendant or earrings? Aren't they graven images? (Aside: Why would you want to wear a murder weapon around your neck?)

Atheists have expressed they have no belief in a God. Well maybe if you think about what you idolize then you might see you have made something your idol. Perhaps it's your own intellect that you idolize? Who or what do you make more important than God?
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Pretty near evrything.

I choose to look to the one true God, Jesus is the way. We know God through His word and nothing holds a candle to Him. In the past I let other things get in the way, now I don't and believe I see it more clearly each day
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The one true God? Haven't we been down this road about 50 jillion times? How do you know that your god is The One True God? Oh wait. It's because you FEEEEEEEL it.

Nevermind.
 
Tricky said:
I know what you believe, but it is faith, not fact. And it doesn't seem to me that you are seeing more clearly. In fact, quite the opposite. It's hard to tell much about reality when you are looking at it through stained glass.
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Hi Tricky, we go to a church that is not a fancy place. No stained glass windows. I think they are pretty, but that's not what churches are suppose to be about. I go to show I love God, support other believers, and get some teaching too.

Each day in my house is spent with God. I don't have to go to church to talk to Him, He is here with me everyday. When I need to I spend time with Him I open my Bible or I spend time in prayer. I know His Spirit bears witness with mine and I love the sense of knowing I am a freind of Gods. This is only possible because of my faith in Jesus.
 
Babylon Sister said:
Why do I need a God?

The one true God? Haven't we been down this road about 50 jillion times? How do you know that your god is The One True God? Oh wait. It's because you FEEEEEEEL it.
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Call it a revelation if you want, but Jesus has revealed Himself to me. I was in the pit of despair and Jesus pulled me out of it. I guess it's because I believed in Him. He was there to show me the way back into the light. He's alive and true to His word. I believe because He made me believe!
I think that's why His word tells us He resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Boy am I humble. I don't ever want to live in the darkness again. I never realized how blinding sin was til I repented and decided to follow Him.
It's more than a feeling, it's a certain knowing that He gives us when we ask!
 
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You know, Kathy, it's funny. You complain because I'm "judging" you, yet you have come here and pronounced judgement on damned near everyone on this board. Care to explain that one away?

Sure, you can list your own spin on the Ten Commandments. You have that right. But concurrent with that is you'd better expect people to come back at you with facts, and expect a reasoned response.

As to what Tricky said, the funny thing about the atheists here and elsewhere is that since they don't idolize anything, they tend to treat objects and ideas with the respect they deserve. They don't worship money, so they don't demand it when it hasn't been earned. (When was the last time a pastor said, "I didn't earn it, folks. So, no offerings today. Tithe if you wish, but the rest of it doesn't belong to me." Oh, wait. I know one pastor who has done that, but you don't seem to like him much.)

They tend to respect honest intellect. This means they avoid groupthink. In fact, I'm honestly surprised we've gotten as much agreement on this thread as we have, given what happens in the P&CR and other boards. (Hmmm. Scary. Claus has yet to demand evidence from me, too.)

Atheists tend to recognize that what they do may not follow them into the afterlife, but it does have both an immediate effect on their lives in the present, and it creates a precedent for those who are left behind. Therefore, they tend to think before they act, rather than trusting God to fix their messes.

I respect Tricky. We disagree on a lot, but I've never been treated by Tricky, or for that matter, many other atheist members of this board, in a manner that would even approach disrespect. On the other hand, Christians have tended to treat me like a red-headed stepchild, looking for the first opportunity to slap me around. Yeah, that REALLY says a lot for following Christ.

Do me a favor, Kathy: You don't want to be judged? Don't judge. You want respect? Try giving a little. Just a thought.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Call it a revelation if you want, but Jesus has revealed Himself to me. I was in the pit of despair and Jesus pulled me out of it. I guess it's because I believed in Him. He was there to show me the way back into the light. He's alive and true to His word. I believe because He made me believe!
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So, would a fair summation be that Jesus found you somewhere, took you from that place, holds on to you and never lets you go, and you love him for it?
 
Roadtoad said:
As to what Tricky said, the funny thing about the atheists here and elsewhere is that since they don't idolize anything, they tend to treat objects and ideas with the respect they deserve. They don't worship money, so they don't demand it when it hasn't been earned. (When was the last time a pastor said, "I didn't earn it, folks. So, no offerings today. Tithe if you wish, but the rest of it doesn't belong to me." Oh, wait. I know one pastor who has done that, but you don't seem to like him much.)
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You know, I always wanted to see something like this happen: to be in a church and the minister says, "You know, we have enough money to pay the bills this week, so we won't be asking for any from you."

Never seen it happen, though.
 
kurious_kathy said:
I think that's why His word tells us He resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Boy am I humble.
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No, you're not. You're a frothing at the mouth fundie that's reveling in throwing your special relationship with God in everyone's face, all while judging us for damned to hell at the same time.


kurious_kathy said:
It's more than a feeling, it's a certain knowing that He gives us when we ask!
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Kathy totally ripped off Boston.
 
Sans kitten, tis springtime in the Kopji rock garden! (Well, last week anyway). I have some small patches of phlox which are very colorful this time of year. The small white wildflowers in front are called candytuft (Iberis). Candytufts are naturalized and quite invasive so I usually end up moving them to slopes where it is difficult to grow anything else.

These happen to look pretty good against the phlox so they will probably stay put unless they try and take over.
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Humm, to kathy's earlier comment on absolute truth. I don't have a problem with there being absolute truth. However, we know the truth of something by 'describing' it. Karl Popper uses an example of climbing a mountain peak shrouded in fog. We want to know if we really reached the top, but how would we know?

We investigate as many things as we can, and especially, try to show we are NOT at the peak, rather than collect evidence that affirms that we reached it. Do we ever completely know though? No.
 
fowlsound said:
No, you're not. You're a frothing at the mouth fundie that's reveling in throwing your special relationship with God in everyone's face, all while judging us for damned to hell at the same time.
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And she grooves on it, too! She takes actual joy at the thought of those EEEEEEEEvil Skeptics suffering eternal misery, where their fire is not quenched, and their worm does not turn. :eek: She takes pleasure at the suffering of others. Prove me wrong, but what I see is someone who enjoys the pain inflicted on other people, someone who wraps themselves up in their "spirituality," their moral smugness, as they gleefully crow about how they'll spend an eternity in spiritual bliss.

Is that someone you would want to spend an eternity with? I might, if I had a tire iron and a bottle of Prozac to go with it.
 
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